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Old April 1, 2014, 07:46 AM
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Damn straight!
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Old April 1, 2014, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRQ Conflict View Post
Your confusing smoother and better with flatness. It is better to have a flat rougher finish than a flat smooth (mirrored) finish simply for increased surface area.

If your trying to cool without TIM you would be right.

Edit: I would be willing to bet that the temp decrease people are seeing in temps due to lapping (if IHS flatness was already acceptable) is that you are simply removing more of the metal between the chip and the heatsink.

I think it's (mirrored finish) a placebo myself.
No, a rough finish means you have more TIM filling the gaps between the processor and copper, which has much worse conductance than just the copper itself. Ideally, a perfectly lapped CPU and heatsink will have such flat and smooth surfaces that almost no TIM is necessary, and you have (essentially) direct contact from the CPU to the heatsink, removing the (in comparison) bad thermal conductance of the TIM from the equation.

Rough is definitely NOT better.
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Old April 1, 2014, 01:41 PM
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First time I see these fasteners used. List of screw heads (common):

List of screw drives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, the Robertson story... Canadian, eh?

Quote:
The internal-wrenching square socket drive for screws (as well as the corresponding triangular socket drive) was conceived several decades before the Canadian P. L. Robertson invented the Robertson screw and screwdriver in 1908 and received patents in 1909 (Canada) and 1911 (U.S. Patent 1,003,657). An earlier patent covering both square-socket- and triangle-socket-drive wood screws, U.S. Patent 161,390, was issued to one Allan Cummings of New York City on March 30, 1875. However, as with other clever drive types conceived and patented in the 1860s through 1890s, it was not manufactured widely (if at all) during its patent lifespan due to the difficulty and expense of doing so at the time.[21] Robertson's breakthrough in 1908 was to design the socket's taper and proportions in such a combination that the heads could be easily and successfully cold formed,[21] which is what made such screws a valid commercial proposition. Today cold forming (via stamping in a die) is still the common method used for most screws sold, although rotary broaching is also common now. Linear broaching to cut corners into a drilled hole (similar to the action of a mortising machine for woodworking) has also been used (less commonly) over the decades.
Robertson had licensed the screw design to a maker in England, but the party that he was dealing with intentionally drove the company into bankruptcy and purchased the rights from the trustee, thus circumventing Robertson.[citation needed] He spent a small fortune buying back the rights. Subsequently, he refused to allow anyone to make the screws under license. When Henry Ford tried out the Robertson screws he found they saved considerable time in Model T production, but when Robertson refused to license the screws to Ford, Ford realized that the supply of screws would not be guaranteed and chose to limit their use in production to Ford's Canadian division.[23][24][25] Robertson's refusal to license his screws prevented their widespread adoption in the United States, where the more widely licensed Phillips head has gained acceptance. The restriction of licensing of Robertson's internal-wrenching square may have sped the development of the internal-wrenching hexagon, although documentation of this is limited.
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Old April 1, 2014, 04:37 PM
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i work as a tools/machinery mecanic and 95% of the time i see torks screws on tools. i prefer them as they are less likely to strip the head then square or philips. for computer hardware i prefer philips probably because we are all used to it.

on a side note lapping a cpu, hsf or even a waterblock to mirror finish will help decreasing temps not because a layer of material is removed, anyways not much is removed by sanding it with 1000 to 3000 grid paper. it is because you reduce imperfections to the surface and thus lesser air gaps in those microscopic cracks and such. air gaps is what kills the heat transfer. tim is there to fill those air gaps. tim will do the thermal transfer or we should say energie transfer since heat is source of energie but tim is still restrictive compared perfect flat surfaces with no tim. unfortunetly there is no such thing as perfect surface. since lapping reduce those imperfection less air gaps there is and less tim is used so less restriction for the thermal transfer.

today cpu's ihs are slightly concave and hsf are convex so to make most contact with each other. but even today by lapping both to almost perfection it still will reduce temps compared to stock.

i have done many lapping's including one i have just accomplished with my i5 3570k plus i delided it to further decrease temps. works very well. 30celcius decrease at full load at 5ghz 1.350v. deliding a i5 3570k is an other debate thought but in short the gap between core and ihs is to big allowing air gap and thicker tim used. not good heat transfer there.
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Old April 1, 2014, 09:39 PM
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Have you lapped a cooler plate and then lightly bead blasted it to test that theory? I'm not saying your wrong. Your obviously versed in something I've only read debates on. How about it Micheal? Wanna give it a shot? I think it would be a great experiment. First, lap the CM to a nice polish then test then bead blast then test to see what/if the temps are really effected by it?

What I'd really be interested in is if CM could further improve their temps by working the metal a little before leaving the factory.
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Old April 2, 2014, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRQ Conflict View Post
Have you lapped a cooler plate and then lightly bead blasted it to test that theory? I'm not saying your wrong. Your obviously versed in something I've only read debates on. How about it Micheal? Wanna give it a shot? I think it would be a great experiment. First, lap the CM to a nice polish then test then bead blast then test to see what/if the temps are really effected by it?

What I'd really be interested in is if CM could further improve their temps by working the metal a little before leaving the factory.
don't need to. the fact that i get x temperature before lapping and x decreased temps after lapping prooves that lapping reduces temps. it also prooves that ihs and hsf aren't near perfect flat surfaces. even in old ages with p4 when both bases were machined flat (not concave and convex like todays cpu) ppl were lapping to make them more flat and reduce temps.

is has been like that for ages and why companies dont make perfect surfaces? because its hard to make them perfect when produced in mass production and so they would have to put particular efforts to every chip and would take more time and also because they don't need to do it. it works already that way. us overclockers just do it to shave off few degrees more.

thats how i see it
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Old April 2, 2014, 03:45 PM
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Yeah the whole Robertson/Phillips head story is a funny one for sure.
I have lapped many a sink in my day and as stated by other's a Flat rough sink and a flat lapped ( polished ) sink are quite different temp wise. Grab some 3000 grit and a piece of glass and try it you will never go back.
The fan spacing I have to wonder if it wasnt simply a oversight and gets revised, if not well that just plain stupid IMO. Simplicity and ease of use is one of the top things going for a A.I.O. unit IMO. Other wise just go custom water.
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Old May 3, 2014, 02:43 PM
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I read the review on Anadtech that this product has unbearable noise? Is that true?
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Old May 3, 2014, 06:35 PM
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Our sample was dead silent. IMHO...if any AIO is making noise...its a bad sample and should be replaced BEFORE testing it.

YMMV
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