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Old February 24, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Default More questions about liquid cooling :o

Hello all. So I will be adventuring into custom liquid cooling setups later this year.

I am doing research like a good noob :)

So some more questions:

1) What's the difference between these:

Bitspower Water Tank Z-Multi 400 Inline Reservoir (BP-WTZM400P-BK) - FrozenCPU.com

Bitspower Dual / Single D5 Top Upgrade Kit 400 - Ice Black (BP-D5TOPUK400P-BKBKIBK) - FrozenCPU.com

2) Does a backplate provide better cooling on a video card? Or is it purely for aesthetics?

3) What are the deciding factors for when getting a radiator other than the size? I want one that looks good (I know, I know..) and one that performs well. Probably none of those thick bulky ones, I'm going for aesthetics, the performance is not a huge deal (considering you can get good overclocks with even an air cooler).

Thank you all for your time!
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Old February 25, 2013, 05:46 AM
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1. First one is just a reservoir, second one is a pump top (attaches directly to the pump). Usually having the reservoir attached to your pump is a bit safer as the pump never runs dry. It does make it harder to position within your case though depending on the size of things.

2. Mainly for looks, it also gives some added support due to the weight of the block. Typically speaking it does nothing for cooling as it has no thermal pads/compound. Cards that have memory on the backside though, then the backplate usually acts as a heatsink for those.

3. Nothing really, buy what you like and what fits in your design. Just make sure it's brass/copper construction so that you aren't mixing metals in your loop.
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Old February 25, 2013, 05:49 AM
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The first link is just standard tube reservoir. It's connected to your loop via fittings only.
The second one the reservoir comes with a special base to allow you to connect the tube reservoir directly to either a single or double D5 Bitspower pump top.

The backplate provides protection to the back of the cards PCB, and also give the card a bit more strength to help prevent it from sagging with the weight of the waterblock on it.

Purchasing a rad requires you have some basic info up front.
  • the number of water blocks your going to be using. At least 1 120 rad core/block. This is the bare minimum. Two cores per block would be much better.
  • the number of fins/inch in the rads will determine what fans are needed. Low density rads (8-14 fins/in) work well with 800-1200 rpm fans, medium density Rads (20 fins/in) require 1200-1800 rpm fans, and high density rads (30 fins/in) will require high speed fans over 1800 rpm with good pressure.
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Old February 25, 2013, 06:30 AM
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All of your questions (and more) are answered at daz's site Dazmode.com |Canadian Watercooling Store, Product Reviews and Forum

He has soooooo many videos, and he is an authority on water cooling.

For the third question I have my own opinions. The rule is one fan slot per block. So if you're running 2x video cards and a cpu get a triple 120mm or 140mm radiator. If you're running a single video card and a cpu get a dual 120mm or 140mm radiator. The only exceptions to the rule are components that generate trivial amounts of heat such as motherboard blocks, memory blocks, and HDD blocks. They can usually piggy-back on your other components. For example, if you're running a cpu block, dual gpu blocks and a motherboard block, you can get away with a triple radiator. More radiators are always better, if your pump(s) can handle it, as you can then run fans at a lower speed.

Always get the thickest radiator your case can handle. I know you said you're going for aesthetics, but what's more pleasing, a quiet computer or a tiny thin rad with 40 db fans on it? This way you can minimize FPI (fins per inch) yet still maintain good heat dissipation. Lower FPI rads need less air flow and thus you can use really really really quiet fans. In my opinion, the whole purpose of watercooling is a silent build that offers superior cooling.

Many people run push/pull fans (one fan on either side) on their radiators. This doesn't help performance significantly and i only recommend this if you want to show off your fans or if you're trying to shave off one or two degrees at a time. There are many expensive things you can do to slightly improve the effectiveness of your loop. Most people recommend fans in a pull configuration, i prefer push as then the side of the radiator with no fans on it isn't exposed. Fins bend easy.

You can 100% mix metals in your loop, copper and aluminum included if and only if you use a corrosion inhibitor. Copper and aluminum mix too well, and you'll get a nasty surprise in your liquid if you mix these two common metals in your loop without corrosion inhibition.

Most radiators are made pretty much the same and many come from the same factory in China. There are only tiny differences between two radiators of the same pass configuration of the same size made by two different companies. Basically many companies just stamp their logo on the radiator. This is akin to how many all in one liquid cooling systems are made by coolit or antec but have different names on them.

Radiators are one component you really have to flush out well before using. Most have slag in them. This is nasty stuff like flux and heavy metal residue. You can flush it out with tap water as long as you then rinse it out with deionized water three times after your put tap water in your radiator. Tap water will ruin components if you live in some cities like Edmonton, so rinse it out well with the DI water.
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Old February 25, 2013, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
You can 100% mix metals in your loop, copper and aluminum included if and only if you use a corrosion inhibitor. Copper and aluminum mix too well, and you'll get a nasty surprise in your liquid if you mix these two common metals in your loop without corrosion inhibition.
I'm not so sure that a corrosion inhibitor will prevent electrolysis. I personally would err on the side of caution and try not to mix the metals used in your loop.
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Old February 25, 2013, 12:16 PM
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Corrosion inhibitor will work.

Dazmode Protector

Electrolysis uses direct current to drive non spontaneous reacions (almost verbatim from the link). Are you putting a live wire in your cooling loop? Does copper and aluminum need electricity to react?

The answers are no. Copper and aluminum will spontaneously react when both metals are in the same solution. One of them dissolves (very slightly) and the other one gets deposits of the other metal on its surface.

The corrosion inhibitor is (most likely) some other more reactive metal in solution that inhibits the copper-aluminum reaction.

Think of it as a sacrificial anode.

Nails, for example, do not form iron oxide when coated with zinc.

The problem with aluminum is that it is a GREAT sacrificial anode. Thus the additive is needed or you WILL have problems with a copper/aluminum loop.

BTW anyone have any pictures of a loop where this has happened? I'm curious.
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Old February 25, 2013, 05:12 PM
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The electrical current is provided by the flow of the water. It creates a static electricity that is enough to start the electrolysis process. It's the same type of static electricity that is created by any fluid flowing through a hose,pipe or block. This is why gas pumps have a ground on the nozzle, to discharge any static build up without the spark.

I'm holding a bottle of DazMode Protector in my hand and have just fully read the label. No where on it does it state that it prevents electrolysis.

I'll ask Daz and he'll know. But I have my information from industrail pipefitters steam fitters that work with this stuff every day.
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Old February 25, 2013, 06:09 PM
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Good sir, if a reaction is spontaneous it proceeds regardless of the presence of DC current. Electrostatic forces are not equivalent to dc current nor does it matter. Aluminium and copper will interact in an aqueous medium; I am not contesting this, I am asserting this.

Corrosion inhibition does work.

Does anyone own a h100 or a h50 or a h80? They are all aluminum/copper systems.


Edit: Also, deionized water is a very very good insulator. It will not conduct electricity without dissolved ions. It does not contain dissolved ions by definition as it is deionized water.
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Old February 25, 2013, 06:15 PM
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I just asked the question at DazModes Forum and Daz has replied.

Mixing Copper and Aluminum in a Loop?
I'll contiune to play it safe thanks.
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Old February 26, 2013, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD View Post
1. First one is just a reservoir, second one is a pump top (attaches directly to the pump). Usually having the reservoir attached to your pump is a bit safer as the pump never runs dry. It does make it harder to position within your case though depending on the size of things.

2. Mainly for looks, it also gives some added support due to the weight of the block. Typically speaking it does nothing for cooling as it has no thermal pads/compound. Cards that have memory on the backside though, then the backplate usually acts as a heatsink for those.

3. Nothing really, buy what you like and what fits in your design. Just make sure it's brass/copper construction so that you aren't mixing metals in your loop.
As long as you know what you're doing, it would make more sense to get the reservoir separate right? I don't care to "play it safe", I'll be reading up to make sure I do everything right.

The "backplates" would be facing up top right? What about the cards that cover the whole card such as the Murderbox computers? Is that a clear backplate..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooded View Post

Purchasing a rad requires you have some basic info up front.
  • the number of water blocks your going to be using. At least 1 120 rad core/block. This is the bare minimum. Two cores per block would be much better.
  • the number of fins/inch in the rads will determine what fans are needed. Low density rads (8-14 fins/in) work well with 800-1200 rpm fans, medium density Rads (20 fins/in) require 1200-1800 rpm fans, and high density rads (30 fins/in) will require high speed fans over 1800 rpm with good pressure.
How does the backplate give support to the card?

So the higher the density of the fins (meaning more fins per area), the higher static pressure you need?

Do radiators usually state how many fins per inch or would I have to look em up? I know some specs aren't always listed for hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masteroderus View Post
All of your questions (and more) are answered at daz's site Dazmode.com |Canadian Watercooling Store, Product Reviews and Forum

He has soooooo many videos, and he is an authority on water cooling.

Always get the thickest radiator your case can handle. I know you said you're going for aesthetics, but what's more pleasing, a quiet computer or a tiny thin rad with 40 db fans on it? This way you can minimize FPI (fins per inch) yet still maintain good heat dissipation. Lower FPI rads need less air flow and thus you can use really really really quiet fans. In my opinion, the whole purpose of watercooling is a silent build that offers superior cooling.

Many people run push/pull fans (one fan on either side) on their radiators. This doesn't help performance significantly and i only recommend this if you want to show off your fans or if you're trying to shave off one or two degrees at a time. There are many expensive things you can do to slightly improve the effectiveness of your loop. Most people recommend fans in a pull configuration, i prefer push as then the side of the radiator with no fans on it isn't exposed. Fins bend easy.

Radiators are one component you really have to flush out well before using. Most have slag in them. This is nasty stuff like flux and heavy metal residue. You can flush it out with tap water as long as you then rinse it out with deionized water three times after your put tap water in your radiator. Tap water will ruin components if you live in some cities like Edmonton, so rinse it out well with the DI water.
I see. Thank you for this input. I don't mind getting a thicker radiator as long as it doesn't get in the way of aesthetics, so I will go for the thickest one possible without it ruining my aesthetics. I plan on getting 2 radiators, a 240 or 360 and another 360 most likely.

So you recommend putting fans under the radiator as opposed to putting em on top, that way they do show. What do you mean the fins bend easy exactly?

I'll make sure to go through a thorough rinsing process.
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