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Old September 19, 2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by igot6strings View Post
Did you have air stones pushing air thru the rad itself? I've seen several set ups with mineral oil that used airstones as a novelty but I've never seen them used as a means to push air bubbles thru a rad. Curious as to what you did exactly.

Also like I said above, salt takes away some of waters ability to hold heat. Might be worthwhile to give that a shot as well or another substance that has the same affect on water.

I understand water left standing with a rad in there will continue to heat up but if there is enough air bubbles being pumped thru the rad with a pair of flat airstones the warm air should exhaust out thru another tube or chamber. It should then be able to keep the water at a reasonable temp I would think. Heat rises no matter if its in water or air. With a few pinches of salt in there it should work even better however it may degrade the rad over time which doesn't really matter for this experiment as it won't be a long term project. I could even put a small 40mm fan or something on top of the container to exhaust the warm air a bit faster.

The key to my experiment is the flat air stones being pressed up against the rad much like a fan would be. If anyone has attempted this already I'd love to hear about it.
When you say hold heat, are you talking about the thermal resistance of the Water itself? Making it harder to 'hold heat' would in theory make it harder to obtain it as well. All you are doing by putting an airstone down there is aggitating the water around the rad, forcing a more active dissipation around the rad versus natural convection. This won't make the water cool to the outside air faster. It Will just warm up the water faster. You are still limted by the surface area at the top of the container and the ability there for it to lose heat.
That is where you need to focus. Focusing on what the Rad is doing at the bottom is pointless.

Just, from my understanding. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am in this case.

-ST
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Old September 19, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
When you say hold heat, are you talking about the thermal resistance of the Water itself? Making it harder to 'hold heat' would in theory make it harder to obtain it as well. All you are doing by putting an airstone down there is aggitating the water around the rad, forcing a more active dissipation around the rad versus natural convection. This won't make the water cool to the outside air faster. It Will just warm up the water faster. You are still limted by the surface area at the top of the container and the ability there for it to lose heat.
That is where you need to focus. Focusing on what the Rad is doing at the bottom is pointless.

Just, from my understanding. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am in this case.

-ST
You're not. Initially the temps on the rad would be awesome, and equal to air. Eventually the mineral oil would 'absorb' all the heat. The air bubbles would never be as efficient at moving the heat from one medium to another (Rad, to air, to oil, to air), then good fans blowing over the rad in a all air environment.

If you just think about the mineral oil as a giant radiator you still need to remove heat in some way, as ST said. Simply put, since air flow is still your medium for heat transfer (and very slightly the top of the oil next to cool air) you're better off just using 120mm fans in an air environment. Larger surface areas equals a quicker (or easier) Delta T change. This is why rads have so many fins, to increase surface area.
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Old September 19, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Good input Soul. I appreciate it. I think I'll have to try it and see. When I get a chance to slap it all together and get a few temp sensors I'll run some tests with various setups. I'm no scientist, nor do I have any great understanding of physics, chemistry or thermodynamics. What goes up must come down, rocks are hard and vinegar hurts in my eyes. Thats my understanding of the universe.

The reason I am inspired by the salt is due to the mythbusters beer cooling episode. It works amazingly well for cooling beer to ice cold in just mere minutes so I'd like to see what it can do in cooling a rad, the water or whatever.

Seriously if you are ever in need of an ice cold beer and all you have is piss warm beer and a few ice cubes grab a container, some salt and cover the can with just enough water, add the ice and fire in a whack of salt. Freezing cold beer in less than 5 mins.

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Originally Posted by Sagath View Post
You're not. Initially the temps on the rad would be awesome, and equal to air. Eventually the mineral oil would 'absorb' all the heat. The air bubbles would never be as efficient at moving the heat from one medium to another (Rad, to air, to oil, to air), then good fans blowing over the rad in a all air environment.

If you just think about the mineral oil as a giant radiator you still need to remove heat in some way, as ST said. Simply put, since air flow is still your medium for heat transfer (and very slightly the top of the oil next to cool air) you're better off just using 120mm fans in an air environment. Larger surface areas equals a quicker (or easier) Delta T change. This is why rads have so many fins, to increase surface area.
lets remove mineral oil from the equation as I have no clue how to alter it or experiment with it. I'll use water initially and go from there.

Last edited by Soultribunal; September 19, 2012 at 11:28 AM.
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Old September 19, 2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by igot6strings View Post
Good input Soul. I appreciate it. I think I'll have to try it and see. When I get a chance to slap it all together and get a few temp sensors I'll run some tests with various setups. I'm no scientist, nor do I have any great understanding of physics, chemistry or thermodynamics. What goes up must come down, rocks are hard and vinegar hurts in my eyes. Thats my understanding of the universe.

The reason I am inspired by the salt is due to the mythbusters beer cooling episode. It works amazingly well for cooling beer to ice cold in just mere minutes so I'd like to see what it can do in cooling a rad, the water or whatever.

Seriously if you are ever in need of an ice cold beer and all you have is piss warm beer and a few ice cubes grab a container, some salt and cover the can with just enough water, add the ice and fire in a whack of salt. Freezing cold beer in less than 5 mins.
Two things.

1) please edit your original responses instead of stacking them when talking to different people. It makes a mess of the thread.

2) Do you have a link to that exact episode, I would like to see what exact reaction caused an endothermic response.

-ST
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Old September 19, 2012, 11:44 AM
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WRT the Beer Cooling with Salt, it works like this:

By adding salt to Water, you lower the freezing point of water.

If you were to put ice in water, the temperature of the water would quickly drop to 0-1C, then remain there until all the ice melted and the water slowly heated back up to the ambient temperature of the room.

But adding salt, you're effectively lowering the freezing temperature of the water. This allows the water to cool to -5 or -6 celcius without freezing. This is why it cools the beer faster and colder than just plain ice water.
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Old September 19, 2012, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by great_big_abyss View Post
WRT the Beer Cooling with Salt, it works like this:

By adding salt to Water, you lower the freezing point of water.

If you were to put ice in water, the temperature of the water would quickly drop to 0-1C, then remain there until all the ice melted and the water slowly heated back up to the ambient temperature of the room.

But adding salt, you're effectively lowering the freezing temperature of the water. This allows the water to cool to -5 or -6 celcius without freezing. This is why it cools the beer faster and colder than just plain ice water.
Oh so it is just that then on the Mythbusters? I thought they were adding it to make something have a reaction to create a cooling effect (like those cold packs).

In that Case Six Strings, it ain't gonna work.

-ST
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Old September 19, 2012, 05:58 PM
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im stubborn, im going to do it anyway, in various forms, and for shits and giggles. I might accidently discover something, be it some odd cooling contraption or a new way to demolish a computer and/or home in a jiffy.
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Old September 19, 2012, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Squeetard View Post
I tried this. With 10 gallons of water. The water just kept getting hotter and hotter until it was too hot. We are underestimating the ammount of heat a rad dissipates and the ammount of heat a cpu and gpu makes.
the mass volume becomes radiant
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Old September 19, 2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by igot6strings View Post
im stubborn, im going to do it anyway, in various forms, and for shits and giggles. I might accidently discover something, be it some odd cooling contraption or a new way to demolish a computer and/or home in a jiffy.
You're always more than welcome to give it a go, I've done some crazy cooling things myself.

-ST
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