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  #91 (permalink)  
Old June 8, 2011, 09:03 AM
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Guys, if you think that any of these companies don't try to save a bit of money where they can once they grow large enough that production needs to speed up on a regular basis you're kidding yourself.

I'd remind everyone: some companies products are generally better than others, but they ALL are serving a market that can still be considered a niche market. To this degree, we're not going to see one product that is 'amazingly' better than another at this point. If you open up a Heatkiller block, if you open up an AquaComputer Kryos, a Swiftech XT, an EK Supreme HF and many more... you'll see that while (for example) the Kryos appears better on the outside (up for debate as well), when you pop it open it has a bit better machining quality than a Swiftech XT block, but that the bases are still a flat slab of copper with thinly cut grooves in the copper. Both are very similar. I would argue at least, that more time has gone into the design overall on the Heatkiller and EK CPU blocks - the EK IMO (sounds fanboyish I know) if you look at the internals, and the bottom plate in conjunction with the top plate - more work has gone into designing and machining the insides of both of these than all the other blocks. The outsides, I'd say the Heatkiller and AquaComputer have the most intricate work done on the visual aspect of the design.

Regardless - my point is: look at the difference in blocks and watercooling equipment available now compared to a few years ago; you would definitely have to appreciate the vast improvement. Through that, there are going to be teething pains... also, companies guaranteed are going to try and produce these in the most economical way possible. I know the mark up on some of these parts (I have price lists direct from several companies; so I know suggested retail pricing ranges versus cost from the company to purchase them), and while not too too bad on some of the parts... other's it is slim picking. That's the nature of this hobby... I know buying something and having it fail no matter how much or how little you paid for it is a real pain in the arse, but I would suggest using every precaution and bit of common sense possible as well as a bit of understanding when buying all of this stuff. I've learned a lot in the past while... and one thing I can say is to always carefully inspect every piece of equipment, and expect there to be little flaws somewhere... nothing yet I have held in my hands has left me feeling like it is 100% spot on.

That being said - none of us know exactly what is used during the process of manufacturing these parts, especially mixing parts of all different sources/companies. I am 100% satisfied in EK's statement and documents. They aren't trying to prove that PTNuke and Silver coils will harm anyone elses products, nor SHOULD they - they are showing you that with their products, and what they offer in specific you should be using anti-corrosion inhibitors. They also did point out in the report that it would be wise to do so in any case, because in a loop with radiators, various different metals and by-products of manufacturing you never know exactly what is in the loop - and ALL metals are susceptible to corrosion given the right circumstances. Nothing is 100% bullet proof and all will fail given the right combination, and amount of time.

Also ask yourself this... why would Petra change up his PTNuke product to use a different chemical in the newest offering of PTNuke if there was absolutely nothing wrong with using copper sulphite? You do know that sulphites are salts correct?
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old June 8, 2011, 10:36 AM
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No problem with companies finding ways to be more profitable. I also have no problems with EK saying to only use specified coolants in their blocks...as long as they make it known before. I think what EK has done is not terrible, except for the shipping costs which they should also cover due to customers using their products in good faith.

That said, and this is not flaming or bitterness or anything...I have taken EK off my list of blocks I would consider. Simply and logically put, I can buy a Koolance or HK product and not worry about the coolant to the same extent as I would have to with EK. I want flexibility in what coolants I can use and I don't seem to have that with EK moving forward.

I might consider their other products, but no CPU or GPU blocks for me with those restrictions.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old June 8, 2011, 12:36 PM
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How is it such a bad "restriction" to use a small bit of glycol in your loop versus PTNuke, or a silver coil? Or if you're brave, plain distilled but switch it out more often.

What's the difference? You're still using an additive to your distilled. Stupid way of thinking on everyone's part. There is ABSOLUTELY no harm in adding a bit of glycol to your loop; you don't need that much and is the exact same thing as if you're having to use PTNuke instead. The only difference is, you can use every brand block with a light mix of glycol - and have the exact same cooling performance as distilled + PTCrap or a Silver coil. (I also think it's retarded when I see people using silver plus PTNuke... they both are meant to do the same thing, you do NOT need both in there)

Sorry but there's no logic in your statement.... just more of the same like everyone else over reacting. Lack of common sense is always a killer
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Old June 8, 2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman View Post
How is it such a bad "restriction" to use a small bit of glycol in your loop versus PTNuke, or a silver coil? Or if you're brave, plain distilled but switch it out more often.

What's the difference? You're still using an additive to your distilled. Stupid way of thinking on everyone's part. There is ABSOLUTELY no harm in adding a bit of glycol to your loop; you don't need that much and is the exact same thing as if you're having to use PTNuke instead. The only difference is, you can use every brand block with a light mix of glycol - and have the exact same cooling performance as distilled + PTCrap or a Silver coil. (I also think it's retarded when I see people using silver plus PTNuke... they both are meant to do the same thing, you do NOT need both in there)

Sorry but there's no logic in your statement.... just more of the same like everyone else over reacting. Lack of common sense is always a killer
EK= use approved coolants and additives
Koolance = use what I want
HK = use what I want
Swiftech = use what I want

Again, not saying that the sky is falling and its all EK's fault, but if you don't see the logic in what I am saying above then there is nothing else to say and we can run around in circles.

---If I have to be more careful with EK stuff vs. their competitors, why am I over-reacting when I decide I just don't want the hassle?

---If I want to resell a block in the future, why should I restrict my selling only to those buyers who use approved EK coolants?

I'll actually be open to buying an EK blocks in the future when their quality is up to the same level as their competitors, which are able to withstand a greater variety of coolants than EK's can. I spend a lot of extra money on quality, and if EK's products cannot withstand the same abuse as other products then common sense says to buy the competitors products in the same price bracket.
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Old June 8, 2011, 01:18 PM
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There is either something wrong with either the nickel plating or with the copper in EK blocks. Why would I run the risk of damaging the rest of my loop due to a poor quality block? Especially when I can just use a different manufactutuer without similar issues.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old June 8, 2011, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman View Post
How is it such a bad "restriction" to use a small bit of glycol in your loop versus PTNuke, or a silver coil? Or if you're brave, plain distilled but switch it out more often.

What's the difference? You're still using an additive to your distilled. Stupid way of thinking on everyone's part. There is ABSOLUTELY no harm in adding a bit of glycol to your loop; you don't need that much and is the exact same thing as if you're having to use PTNuke instead. The only difference is, you can use every brand block with a light mix of glycol - and have the exact same cooling performance as distilled + PTCrap or a Silver coil. (I also think it's retarded when I see people using silver plus PTNuke... they both are meant to do the same thing, you do NOT need both in there)

Sorry but there's no logic in your statement.... just more of the same like everyone else over reacting. Lack of common sense is always a killer
Ethelyn Glycol is HIGHLY toxic. Would never use it in a loop. Get a leak, animals lick it up, animals die.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old June 8, 2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DarthBeavis View Post
Ethelyn Glycol is HIGHLY toxic. Would never use it in a loop. Get a leak, animals lick it up, animals die.
More to the point...whats to say that I DO do all that EK wants, get a bad one and RMA it, pay to ship it to them only for them to turn around and say "RMA denied, you obviously used a coolant not on our approved list". How do you prove a negative in a case like that? Lets face it, they can be real douches to deal with. Thats why I may like their product, and occasionally recommend it (as they DO have some kit not many...if any other mfger offers) but screw that noise. IMHO, they have come out and instead of coming clean and saying "we messed up but will make it right" they are saying the ones having problems are too stupid to use our equipment right.

I can honestly and in good faith say that I gave them the benefit of the doubt, waited for them to reply (as we should all do in cases like this) and have found their reply less than acceptable. If anyone wants to tar and feather em, I sure as shite wont be a calling for caution and restraint. EK are dead as far as I am my purchases (and recommendations) are concerned. Ill tell peeps to stick to air if their only wc option is EK. What a sad, sad day. Maybe the core of what was a good company will emerge from this and rebuild, but in the mean time...its better to have one less option than have peeps turned off WC'ing after a bad experience with these wankers.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old June 8, 2011, 02:08 PM
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EK uses low grade recycled copper (if it can be even classified as copper). However that is not the problem. The problem is the application of the platting. there is no such thing as 100% copper block unless you have it made custom. At this point, Eddy is correct, you need to run an anticorrosive with his low quality platted blocks.

I switched to H2O + silver awhile back and In will never use a anticorrosive again. Just tired having to do a complete tear down every 2 months.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old June 8, 2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthBeavis View Post
Ethelyn Glycol is HIGHLY toxic. Would never use it in a loop. Get a leak, animals lick it up, animals die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by codeman View Post
The only difference is, you can use every brand block with a light mix of glycol - and have the exact same cooling performance as distilled + PTCrap or a Silver coil. (I also think it's retarded when I see people using silver plus PTNuke... they both are meant to do the same thing, you do NOT need both in there)

Sorry but there's no logic in your statement.... just more of the same like everyone else over reacting. Lack of common sense is always a killer
not only the liquid glycol (EG) also the fumes are toxic, if choosen

try the propylene glycol (PG) for leesor of EG, used in your girlfriends/wife beauty and health products

also is pet safe
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Old June 8, 2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KaptCrunch View Post
not only the liquid glycol (EG) also the fumes are toxic, if choosen

try the propylene glycol (PG) for leesor of EG, used in your girlfriends/wife beauty and health products

also is pet safe
wish vendors would use PG but every one I have seen thus far uses EG instead.
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