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-   -   Horizontal Rotary SS project (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/water-cooling/39718-horizontal-rotary-ss-project.html)

gray mole January 9, 2011 12:53 AM

Horizontal Rotary SS project
Something new I've been working on.

A guy in India's been bugging me every time I build a Rotary benching cooler, asking about shipping costs and stuff. Anything over 20kg to India from Canada is like 1000 bucks so it's totally unrealistic, but there's no one close to him to make one.

So after a couple of units (and a lot of questions :D ) I figured I'd make one or at least try to keep it under 20kg.

I emailed some guys, and one has these Horizontal Rotary compressors. For whatever reason they're a bit lighter, this one's 11kg so there's room for a case and all the rest of the stuff you need.

I should call this the 'miracle weight loss program' since that's what it's really about :D
So specs first...

120mm custom condensor
240mm custom condensor
(Edit - they're basically 3/4 of a 9000btu condensor, reworked for horizontal and vertical application. Should be 2/3 at least, so 6000btu or so total condensor capacity)
Custom shrouds
3/4hp Horizontal Tecumseh rotary
Piotres big stepper (old shape)
1 meter braided flex
Older Chilly1 case

So yeah, it's gotta be light.

Rotaries in this range are usually 15+kg and most I have are closer to 20kg on their own.

The case is a heavy steel, so I may need to start cutting 'blowholes' to save weight, but we'll see.
So far, assembled weight was 19kg. With gas, I know I'm starting to get closer to the 20 mark, but there's no holes for the top mount horizontal condensor.

So I found the lightest steel I could find for the shrouds. They're strong enough, and really not carrying a lot of weight, but really weight is the issue.

The condensors are an ultralight type. Less than a kilo for both, including fans :D
the shrouds are a couple grams each. Only 22 guage.

Flexline and block add a fair bit, didn't weight those independently, but it adds up fast when your case is around 6+ kilos.

Otherwise it's 3/4hp performance so far. When I get a few more details done I'll post again.

It looks odd, but the compressor sits at a slightly upward angle.

The upper condensor is around 3/4" above the compressor when the case top is on and it'll screw into the top. Front condensor's shroud will get some 'speedclips' and then the screws will hold that up.
So a very 'specific' fitting, measuring everything so it's close. The pipes will give a bit of flexibility but it's got to be right or nothing works.

Oh, and the accumulator really IS that big. Odd looking thing, it's insulated in the pic with 6mm self adhesive neoprene but it's about 4 times the size of anything I've seen on an upright, or any horizontal for that matter.

So it's perfect for fitting again, meaning absolute PITA :D

This install is a 9" tall and wide case, and there's very little 'extra'.

May get a 200mm rear fan on it, but it's the weight. Not totally 'needed' but if I can it would really finish the back of it nice.

So that's basically what I mean by a custom condensor. having a bunch here means I can chop and braze almost anything and it's handy since getting someone else to do up a custom is a long wait or really expensive.

Have nooooo interest in making them all the time though. Takes a rod or two at like 5 bucks each (give or take) and the brazing, leaktesting, painting, and bending up a shroud is a lot of work, so here and there is fine but 'for everyone' there's just no way.

So I make 'em as it's needed but it's not really 'hard' just time consuming.

The shrouds and some other stuff still need more attention, but this is the basic idea. Been pretty neat so far, never had to get quite this picky before :D

There's a pic off their site. Shows the accumulator really well without insulation.

So I still have a bit of wiring and prettying up to do, but this is how it'll look assembled...
I measured well enough, it lined up enough to screw in the upper fan assembly and guards. Bit of clearance from the compressor so that's all good.

the front condensor and screen are decent, but I may do up another shroud, make it a bit prettier though it's not too bad.

All in all it's worked out well, and I'm at 18.5kg :D so I have room for a decent packaging job. The case is an old Chilly1 and it's seen better days, but it's stronger than most, very thick on the steel. So I shouldn't need a huge amount of padding, just some sheets of styrofoam around it and a box.

I'll post some results with actual load test pics, but initially and without much insulation it's running around -55c unloaded and -36c with 380w.

Don't know if the insulation will add a whole lot to temp results, but it's close to other big rotary projects I've done.

Though it's still not quite as cold as the Xmas box cooler. Don't know what I did that was so special on that one, but it's the best I've done for 'coldest' overall temps.

I'll keep trying I guess :D


gray mole January 9, 2011 12:55 AM

Oh yeah

It's about 200 dollars for 20kg or less to India. Even 1 gram over 20kg and it's instantly 950 dollars or something. Crazy.

HalifaxPete January 9, 2011 01:24 AM

Jeez for $950, you could fly to India and set it up and have a return trip. :biggrin:
Have a Canadian Tech Support Hotline and talk him through the build. Yeah, i know, har, har, har

I like how you are always looking for creative solutions to your projects. :thumb:

_dangtx_ January 9, 2011 01:38 AM

looking good. how much do you figure proper packing will actually weigh?

i used to ship heavy stuff surrounded by those foam things, you know the harder ones that dont break or puncture?

i would add anywhere from 10mm to 50mm depending on the application. saves weight, all the box has to do is not break up.

and of course, this means youre going global :)

lowfat January 9, 2011 09:39 AM

Wo, i really like the idea of this. My rotary single stage is effing huge besides of the need to be vertical.

Dead Things January 9, 2011 09:56 AM

That's a good looking little unit too! Almost seems a shame to conceal it inside a case.

gray mole January 9, 2011 10:15 AM

Thanks guys :D

Yeah, it ends up with a really unique look the way it is. No one's really doing it this way, but it's not usually needed either.

This is the 'platform' for a case install though.

The 800D and a few other cases will take a horizontally installed condensor if you can fit a compressor in the base so it was a good 'practice session' for that too.

Yeah Dan, I usually try to allow for 1kg worth of packing and additional 'stuff' in the box. I go crazy and end up higher than that sometimes, but it's a good target. Heavy cardboard get's a bit heavier and I'd rather not have to take it to the post office and have to lug it back to repackage :p

I LOVE that tech support idea :D Designing is way more fun than the actual build! Prototyping is pretty cool sometimes though.

@Lowfat - Yeah, most of the time size and space aren't something a guy thinks about when a cooler's made. I'm trying to make things 'size conscious' lately, though if a case is already big I'll just go with that, but it's nice to make things smaller if possible. this is about as small as a rotary cooler gets I think. I'm really curious how these would do in a cascade. A case that would stack these could be very compact.


gray mole January 9, 2011 07:19 PM

Well it's obvious to me that this compressor is a bit bigger than 3/4hp. The temps are too good, and I know I'm not 'that' good.

I had it only partially insulated and was running medium strength fans. Now that it's insulated fully, and I installed around 60cfm fans, the temps are a lot better.

I was suspicious by the LRA being a bit higher and then I found the spec sheet. It's a 16cc compressor, and usually 3/4hp is around 12 to 14cc at most.

The unloaded temp is down to -65c and the load temp at 360w is -44c to -45c (fluctuates a bit)

So I'm impressed.

I've just finished the gas tuning, so I can do a final install on the case top, and then I'll do up the load result pics on it.

Pretty happy with this one. Hoping it's still under 19kg but I think so.

Just hope I don't have to build this one very often :D it's a lot more work than a 'normal' build :p


gray mole January 9, 2011 11:13 PM

Well the final results are in :D

The unit runs just a hair warmer than with the case together, which is normal I guess. Airflow is mildly restricted with a case and I can't do a lot about that, but it's colder than I thought. I also need to increase the charge slightly, just to get it to cool down a bit faster. Static is 115psi now, still within a reasonable range.

Tuning is really odd. I left the last run of pipe uninsulated in charging tests and it frosts further with load than not. High side pressure pushing it further? Not sure, but it pulls back into the accumulator when it's unloaded. There's far more capacity than I can test now. It was holding 380w before the increase in charge.

The change to 50hz should be just fine now though. Estimate it at 400w+ at 60hz so 300w shouldn't be any problem with the slower speed if it affects it drastically.

Initially I was seeing -45c for a short load test, and if a person is benching with it on the shorter runs then I would imagine that's the kind of results you'd see. Increased charge brings it down a touch, but would rather lose a degree or 2 than not have full capacity.

For long prime runs and stuff, the longer load results are way more accurate.

So this is with the probe on the side under the heatshrink. It's a K bead probe so shouldn't see damage there. It's halfway down the evap, so not as close as I'd like but whatever. For a more true idea, I'd round down a little for a more 'evap base' temp.

406w -40.6 :D
360w -42ish Sorry if it's upside down. Stupid imageshack
300w -43ish
200w -48 or so
100w -54
Unloaded after load tests -66c

Unfortunately 400w is the max my tester can do, and I had to turn off the heaters in the Garage to get that. The Garage power is only on a 30amp circuit and the load of everything pulls the voltage down a hair. Didn't really make a difference to ambient, especially with the phase unit acting as a heater :D but I only turned them off for a final 'max load' test.

-40.6 at 406w is kind of funny :D It was bouncing from 40.6 to 40.7 but I wanted to catch it there.

So I don't think this is a 3/4hp compressor. I mean, I've done what I can with the usual captube solder job and condensor's capable of maintaining the ambient even under load (tested at 23c ambient) but I didn't do anything fancy with Gas. R290 is becoming a favorite though. May not be as cold as some gasses, but it's so easy to keep the lowside pressure down that it's getting very good results with condensors that don't need to be as powerful.

I have to estimate closer to 1hp though. 16cc/64LRA doesn't quite sound like 1hp but bigger than 3/4 for sure, and the temps are too low for a 3/4hp unit.

For the versatility of a Horizontal Rotary though it's fantastic. Awkward, sure, but being able to use a large SS standard case is great. Very compact.

Noisy, well of course :D it's a rotary!

So if anyone was thinking of this kind of thing, the minimum is a 9" wide and 9" tall case, but really to have 'good' room up top to do condensors then taller would be handy.

The Cooler Express (if it's 9" wide) would be perfect really. Tall enough for a lot of room.

If I deal with this kind of install again, I think that it'd be easier to do the top condensor setup but to fabricate a support bracket so that it was easier to install into the case top. It's not that bad, but a support would also mean it could work well without the case top on, and the temps are marginally better that way.

I'd have done the fan at the back but the room is really tight there too, and shipping could end up damaging it. So it's just open and Chilly1's old cases were very open so it's not too bad really.
That's that I guess. It's more or less ready to go at just barely under 19kg total weight, or around 42lbs.

I'll be packing it up and reweighing again, then I'll have to take it to the post office and get them to confirm that too. Once I can be 100% sure it's a 'pass' then I can go from there.
Working to that limit is tight for sure.

I think if I had a slightly lighter case it'd be easier, but at the same time the Chilly1 old case is seriously thick steel so damage won't be such an issue I hope. A lighter metal could get mangled on a long trip and that'd be a real shame.

Going to have to insure really high though, make sure that the cost of the shipping back again if they did do damage is definitely a good idea. Don't know if they'd just do it free and don't want to find out :p:

So it's a success I guess. Mainly the weight really, over 20kg and it's not affordable to send overseas so I'm really glad I could keep that within the range.

The compressor was a pleasant surprise, though the strange tuning on it was a challenge. Judging by superheat wasn't really the way to go, more about max load and working down. Strange, but it's not flooding on max or no load so it's all good. Considering the price of the compressor was reasonable for a 3/4hp getting more than that is just a bonus. Hope Mr. Banik is happy if he ends up with it :) It was a fun build, even though it took a while compared to other rotary units.


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