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  #21 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cadaveca View Post
Um, P5K-e? with one 16x slot, and one 4x slot? Yet another bandwidth bottleneck? How is that any different?
Different from what?

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It has NOTHING to do with the length of time for the frame to be displayed. It has everything to do with all the drawn frames not being displayed, and what you describe is a DIFFERENT problem from Microstutter, and hence alot of the confusion.

Yes, the behavior may appear like Microstutter, but that problem you describe is quite different from Microstutter with 2x 16-lane PCI-E 2.0.
I experienced both micro and non micro stuttering induced by CF limitations as well as chipset limitations. I know what microstuttering is..

And yes it has every bit to do with the length of time between frames displayed, you just described what I said in a different way.

you're not the only person on the planet that understands what microstuttering is...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 08:58 AM
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Different from what I describe? I then explain how? Rhetorical question?

That's the misconception. How are dropped frames, and delayed frames, the same?

This bit of into, the timing of the frames, was garnered using FRAPS. How does fraps measure framerate?

Don't get me wrong, what you describe is definately an issue, for sure; there are many issues plaguing Multi-gpu set-ups.

The frames are delayed from managing which get dropped. You describe a side-effect of one of the SOLUTIONS to Microstutter, not the problem.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cadaveca View Post
Different from what I describe? I then explain how? Rhetorical question?

That's the misconception. How are dropped frames, and delayed frames, the same?

This bit of into, the timing of the frames, was garnered using FRAPS. How does fraps measure framerate?

Don't get me wrong, what you describe is definately an issue, for sure; there are many issues plaguing Multi-gpu set-ups.
No you're not getting what I'm saying. Im saying i DID experience MS, as well as normal stuttering caused by the chipset bottleneck... Please stop assuming I don't know what im talking about, its rather annoying. I've been aware of MS for quite some time.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 09:06 AM
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I am not assuming anything, I'm going by what you yourself posted. The problem you described, is not Microstutter, and I have no qualms about saying so.

I started the Micrstutter conversation. Noone else was talking about it when I was. Then a few sites picked up on it, YEARS after I started dealing with ATI on the issue. My contact got fired, shortly after, the issue went public.
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Old August 20, 2008, 09:17 AM
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I started the Micrstutter conversation. Noone else was talking about it when I was. Then a few sites picked up on it, YEARS after I started dealing with ATI on the issue. My contact got fired, shortly after, the issue went public.
Riiiight.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Cheator View Post
I've been aware of MS for quite some time.

Riiight.


See i can do that too, and it isn't very mature, now is it?

I hate to say it, but I'm the only one really explaining Mircostutter technically, but I'm all ears if you "have the real answer".

In the end, my only goal is to de-mistify the problem. I am confident AMD has a superb fix for dual-gpus. So any additional info is more than welcome.

Have you reverse-engineered the driver and found the source? Are you a developer for AMD, covered by NDA, and cannot say? Are you going to help deal with the issue, or hinder it? Claiming the problem is something else than what it really is just going to make matters worse.

I mean, please contact AMD and see what they have to say about the issue. Point them to this thread, and ask they step in. I don't want to argue with you about it...really...but I will not let the disinformation continue.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 12:26 PM
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cadaveca, okay, I get it and it makes sense.
Communications skews in such systems are common, and faster fps would make it worse.
At some point the frame has to come together and if one gpu gets a little behind the others, well they have to wait.
Stutter.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 12:58 PM
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Well, that is yet another problem as well, one gpu slower than the other. A few drivers did just that, did not clock the second vga out of 2D-mode, and rather than causing stutter, this causes graphical tearing, as the incomplete frame gets pushed out of the framebuffer, easily fixed with v-sync. Again, yet another issue, but not microstutter. V-sync merely helps by SLOWING DOWN the data feed, but stutter will still be there in some instances.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cadaveca View Post
Riiight.


See i can do that too, and it isn't very mature, now is it?

I hate to say it, but I'm the only one really explaining Mircostutter technically, but I'm all ears if you "have the real answer".

In the end, my only goal is to de-mistify the problem. I am confident AMD has a superb fix for dual-gpus. So any additional info is more than welcome.

Have you reverse-engineered the driver and found the source? Are you a developer for AMD, covered by NDA, and cannot say? Are you going to help deal with the issue, or hinder it? Claiming the problem is something else than what it really is just going to make matters worse.

I mean, please contact AMD and see what they have to say about the issue. Point them to this thread, and ask they step in. I don't want to argue with you about it...really...but I will not let the disinformation continue.
Once again, you are not the only one who understands it fully. Please read my clarifying posts, and accept this fact. There are plenty of people around the internet that have written articles and done testing on this.

Next time don't jump to conclusions so quickly, and think that maybe, just maybe, someone out there somewhere might know what they're talking about...
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Optimus: Antec P180, Asus P5Q-E, E8400, 4 GB RAM, Asus 4850, Seagate 320gb, Antec TC II

Teletraan I: Asus P5K-E/WIFI, E4500, 2 GB RAM, ATI 3450, Sapphire Theatrix, 2.25TB storage, Antec SP2 400w

Galvatron: Asus M2NPV-VM, 3800+ X2, 2GB RAM, NV8500GT, Seasonic 500w

Tracks: Acer AS5920, C2D 2.1ghz 45nm, 3GB DDR2, NV8600m GT, 250gb hdd

Hound: Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S, AMD 4400+ X2, 1 GB RAM, 2900XT, 500w Seasonic

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  #30 (permalink)  
Old August 20, 2008, 01:06 PM
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I never said I'm the only one who understands..clearly AMD does...they've even admitted that the PLX chip in 3870x2 wasa major source of this problem, due to a lack of bandwidth, and have both used the new PLX chip, as well as offering the XSP.

I'm dealing only with your "stutter under 16x/4x Crossfire", which is not microstutter. Microstutter is not an issue fixed purely by pci-e bandwidth, but stutter from 16x/4x can be fixed, by using a board with 2x16 electrical slots.

This is the only issue I have with your claims. using 16x/4x for crossfire is nothing more than a bad system config, and builder error.


Maybe you should enlighten me... you clarified how?
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