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  #21 (permalink)  
Old March 5, 2014, 04:26 AM
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I love AMD but who here also thinks they will ramp production on the next chip's only to see asic's destroy the gpu based mining leaving AMD holding a huge "Bag" of chips to sell.
Actually, in that respect, AMD has been extremely smart. They haven't drastically increased their production rates or ordered a ton of additional wafers.

I think both NVIDIA and AMD are rightly holding their bets due to one simple question: they're worried about what will happen to NEW card values if / when people start dumping their used mining cards.
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Old March 5, 2014, 05:17 AM
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Markets will be flooded with High Tech Paper Weight's.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old March 5, 2014, 06:06 AM
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Personally, I wouldn't buy I used mining card but that's just me.
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Old March 5, 2014, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Wha? Chip designs take YEARS.

For example, Maxwell went through trial runs in March 2013. Early silicon arrived at NVIDIA in JUNE. The design was originally approved in late 2012.

The first Hawaii silicon was already in AMD's hands as TITAN rolled out. Hawaii's initial design was cobbled together from the pieces of Sea Islands along with bits of Southern Islands.

Thinking that Hawaii was "commissioned" when TITAN came out is preposterous.

And no, this isn't conjecture. This is straight from contacts at TSMC.
Yeah, Hawaii was up and running in April, Titan was out in late May. Hawaii was rushed hard, however, even if silicon is taped out very early on that doesn't mean that you can't rush the product and push the release date earlier than intended.

You're also not giving Curacao the little bit of credit it deserves, it was a kicker product and not a full rebrand. I don't blame AMD or Nvidia for rebranding right now, considering how god-awfully slow TSMC is with getting 20nm up and running. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the longest delay between process shrinks in modern GPU history?

And not to disappoint, but even the next new card from AMD will still be 28nm. There's no way to get anything smaller made.
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Old March 5, 2014, 08:51 AM
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The problem with TSMC's 20nm is that it isn't geared towards high performance computing products like GPUs. It really targets the SoC market.

16nm will likely be the next node GPUs are made on.
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Old March 5, 2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Wha? Thinking that Hawaii was "commissioned" when TITAN came out is preposterous.

And no, this isn't conjecture. This is straight from contacts at TSMC.
"Commissioned" might have been the wrong word, more "Green lighted". As yes AMD engineering would've had engineering samples to test and evaluate. While once they said this could be moved for production that left 7-8mo to finalize and get wafer starts scheduled and back for pre-production testing.
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Old March 5, 2014, 10:00 AM
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"Commissioned" might have been the wrong word, more "Green lighted". As yes AMD engineering would've had engineering samples to test and evaluate. While once they said this could be moved for production that left 7-8mo to finalize and get wafer starts scheduled and back for pre-production testing.
Keep in mind that AMD knows what Nvidia is doing long before any consumers do. Leaks between the companies are much more common and much earlier than public leaks. But regardless, once that design is made, there is no real "green light". They very rarely scrap products, so almost everything is green-lighted. Regardless of Titan, Hawaii was still coming essentially.

With the exception of cutting down/beefing up products (see: R7 265, 7970 GHz etc.) every major product is far too planned out to change on such short notice. There is so much planning and time put into the product that they don't make last minute decisions or changes based off stuff like that. Only minor details change, not whole product lines.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old March 5, 2014, 10:26 AM
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From our chairs, we can only speculate so much. Products are sometimes designed years in advance. At other times, things like smartphones and tablets happen and the entire industry must scramble to adapt and change plans rapidly.

IMO, AMD's engineering resources have probably been stretched thin for a while because of the development of APUs and the recently launched consoles. This was probably projected to be a lull period for GPUs with the launch of said consoles stealing sales and competing for components.

Yet, AMD remains competitive. As do Tahiti-based products.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old March 5, 2014, 04:08 PM
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280$ USD for the 280? Good GRIEF that is nuts. These cards were selling NEW on amazon.com and newegg for 180$ 8-9 months ago. I remember this well because I bought one a secondary rig. Now this. I always thought it was retailers gouging on prices, but now it is clear that AMD is getting their hands on a piece of the greed pie with this price. 280$ is completely and utterly absurd for a card released in early 2012. The percentage price difference between the 7970 and 7950 was always far greater as well, as the 7950 offered a good value in comparison to the 7970. Now this is 20$ cheaper. Why? I can think of no reason other than cashing in on idiot miners and their insistence on buying 20+ AMD SKUs at a time. Because everyone knows very few actual PC gamers are buying these stupid cards when nvidia of all companies has a better value proposition across the board and not to mention better intangible factors on the nvidia side (noise, heat, power, drivers, software, I could go on)

And the kicker is, IMO, AMD's software is still substantially worse than nvidia's, has been ever since the Kepler. I couldn't see myself buying that card for 280$ given AMD's software situation, and the funny thing is that these cards will probably instantly price hike to 325$+. At 180$ 9 months ago I loved to recommend these cards to friends for straight up great value despite AMD's poor software situation. Now? I don't think so.

Last edited by velias; March 5, 2014 at 04:14 PM.
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Old March 5, 2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by velias View Post
280$ USD for the 280? Good GRIEF that is nuts. These cards were selling NEW on amazon.com and newegg for 180$ 8-9 months ago. I remember this well because I bought one a secondary rig. Now this. I always thought it was retailers gouging on prices, but now it is clear that AMD is getting their hands on a piece of the greed pie with this price. 280$ is completely and utterly absurd for a card released in early 2012. The percentage price difference between the 7970 and 7950 was always far greater as well, as the 7950 offered a good value in comparison to the 7970. Now this is 20$ cheaper. Why? I can think of no reason other than cashing in on idiot miners and their insistence on buying 20+ AMD SKUs at a time. Because everyone knows very few actual PC gamers are buying these stupid cards when nvidia of all companies has a better value proposition across the board and not to mention better intangible factors on the nvidia side (noise, heat, power, drivers, software, I could go on)

And the kicker is, IMO, AMD's software is still substantially worse than nvidia's, has been ever since the Kepler. I couldn't see myself buying that card for 280$ given AMD's software situation, and the funny thing is that these cards will probably instantly price hike to 325$+. At 180$ 9 months ago I loved to recommend these cards to friends for straight up great value despite AMD's poor software situation. Now? I don't think so.
You mad? a R9 280 is still one of the best GPUs you can buy for 1080P gaming.

AMD drivers are generally speaking, as good as NVIDIA too from my experience. Except for SC2 where it's still dominated by NVIDIA for some reason.
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