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Old August 27, 2013, 07:09 PM
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I really dig this card.
It's my next purchase. ETA X-Mas time....hopefully pricing will be nicer.

That, or I might cheap out and grab 2 X 760 DCuII in SLI....that would be faster, cheaper, and still pretty good for BF4 I think...As I play at 60Hz V-SYNC ON, which of the two option is better?

Should I go for the 3Gig RAM buffer because I'm at 1200P?
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Old August 27, 2013, 07:14 PM
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Or the GTX 770 DirectCU II. That's on my test bench right now and it's impressive too.
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Old August 27, 2013, 07:19 PM
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OK,

So two 770s DCuII in SLI would be great, if they drop in price to around 350$ each (crossing fingers).

Sky, are you formally reviewing the 770? If so, when are you expecting the review to come out?
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Old August 27, 2013, 07:34 PM
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Yes I am. Review list is as follows:

Tomorrow night: GTX 670 Mini
Monday night: IVB-E
Tuesday night: GTX 780 Classified
Wednesday night: ASRock Z87 Fatal1ty
Thursday night: MSI GTX 780 Lightning (delayed due to a new BIOS coming down the pipeline)
Sunday night: ASUS GTX 770 DirectCU II OC


I have a few GTX 760s as well (EVGA and ASUS) but after that, no more GPU reviews until October sometime.
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Old August 28, 2013, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bliz View Post
Holy crap,the titan is not on the top in a lot of cases! wtf!!!!

I knew 780 was close but i didn't think it would ever beat a titan even when OCed
Even stock 780 when oc'd beats stock titan .. (or at least in some cases)



Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Yes I am. Review list is as follows:
Monday night: IVB-E
:) Can't wait. :P
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Old August 28, 2013, 08:56 PM
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So Mr. Leader, will you be able to confirm IVB-E ISH application method? Heard some rumours they will solder this one instead of using a crappy thermal paste... but then again, temps while over-clocked should answer that question (assuming you have time to over-clock the chip for the review).
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Old August 28, 2013, 09:50 PM
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Thermals: great

Overclocking: meh
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Old August 30, 2013, 03:29 PM
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Sky,

In terms of GTX780's, as you tested the Reference model, the Giga windforce, the EVGA ACX and the DirectCuII, which one do you prefer?
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Old August 31, 2013, 07:49 AM
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I would assume the Asus as it's cheaper or as cheap as the rest but reads to be as good if not better than the MSI Lightning (770) on the cooling and components...
I'd wait and see for the classified ed and proper 780 lightning review but they are going to have a hard time beating what Asus has achieved here.

The only thing really is if the Lightning can blow it away with overclocking due to unlocked or less restrictive voltage control.
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Old August 31, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Very nicely done and interesting review, SKYMTL
However is there a close up on the caps used on the Asus card? As I see it, there are two types (input - likely 16V ones, output - likely 2.5V ones, as no lower voltage are produced (yet) ) of the caps and none of them reaseble any brand of caps I'm familiar with.
Or, to be more precise, any brand that is respectable. So far, the best polymers produce Nichicon, as their ripple current ratings are highest and ESR/ESL lowest. Just look at the LE line, the best caps there deliver a whooping 7300mA of ripple ( http://nichicon-us.com/english/products/pdfs/e-le.pdf ) and I have yet to see a comparable capacitor.

To put long story short, I would like to identify the caps used - just out of curiosity if tha card cannot be actually made even better


Quote:
Simple fact is I HATE what Nvidia are doing with the voltage limitations...
Agreed, however let's hope that some tweaked bios can fix that and the overclock will be limited only by the stability point, not by some artificial limits.
Tough I did not agree on any artificial limits anywhere, it is the customers that allow nVidia get away with this limits. If people refuse to buy limited cards, then nVidia will be quickly abandoning this. But as long as people buy, then they could continue.

Bottom line - not that I want to defend this in any way, shape or form - since overclocked GTX 780 beat Titan, you can see the reasons why there are the limits by yourself. If there are no limits, then who will buy Titan, when most of the GTX 780 could be made to run as fast, as the Titan or even fater?
Artificaly introducting these limits allow nVidia not to get too much ahead with the next card, so you can just buy another and another...
Smaller steps = more profit.


Quote:
how thorough you were with the power section. 150,000 hour caps... wow.
Uhm, this is marketing BS. These caps are NOT 150 000 hours rated, but of MTBF 150 000 hours. That does not mean they are rated to last 150 000 hours - you gotta read between the lines. This information in the review come directly from Asus marketing. Now almost all low ESR electrolyte caps and most solid state polymer caps are rated to 2000 hours only.
Example:
http://nichicon-us.com/english/products/pdfs/e-le.pdf (Load life of 2000 hours at 105C.)
http://nichicon-us.com/english/products/pdfs/e-cf.pdf
http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/pr...catalog_l8.pdf (Endurance: 105C 2000/5000Hrs at rated voltage)

Some for longer life are rated as 5000 h, but that it is:
http://nichicon-us.com/english/products/pdfs/e-p_cs.pdf (CS: Long Life Assurance - Load life of 5000 hours at 105C.)

Never seen a higher load life time rated polymer capacitor (seen Nichicon HE as 7000h ones, but that it is).

So, you gotta read exactly what MTBF means. It never ever meant that the capacitor can last 150 000h, ever. It just say, that once per 150 000 hours there can be a failure of the cap. That it is.



Now a bit more deep on the capacitor lifetime.
2000 h can look pretty low, especially considering that one year with 10h a day = 3 650 hours.
So does that mean that even best of all the capacitors ever made, a Nichicon LE will fail under one year?!
No.
Gotta read the fineprint. It says that the company guarantee that it will NOT fail under full load AND 105C temperature for 2000 h. (Fail is too strong word there, they guarantee that the capacitance and ripple don't get more that 20% worser that it should be.)

The temperature.
The load life of capacitor is very strictly determined by load on the cap (mainly the ripple current - eg. how much the cap is stressed out) and most most importantly by the temperature as witch the stress the cap has to endure. The 105C it high. But not all that high, as some mosfets and coils can hit this temperature, expecially if there is watercooling and no moving air around them.
Now the best and biggest secret is, that the guaranted lifetime DOUBLE with each 10C lower temperature on witch the cap is used. Hence you end up with this nice table:
105C - 2 000h
95C - 4 000h
85C - 8 000h
75C - 16 000h
65C - 32 000h
55C - 64 000h
45C - 128 000h
(taken from Rubycon calculations for elytes, they claim it is valid for polymers too, but no-one know for sure, we just gotta wait and see: http://rubycon.co.jp/en/products/alumi/pdf/Life.pdf )
And since year has only 8 760 hours, then it means that a 2 000 h @ 105C rated cap at 45C of load operation is guaranted (unless the MTBF strikes - manufacture defect, etc.) to last you 14,6 years of nonstop usage.

...and this is likely more time that you are willing to use the part. And after that, you can replace it for a new one, but it also can work even longer, because that is the guaranted minimum time.

Therefore the conclusion is, that if you cool your caps and they are good caps (not some questionable caps or downright bad caps or fakes of good caps), then they last you for long time :)

Hope now does the numbers make sense for all.
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