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Old June 11, 2013, 09:31 AM
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But isn't Nvidia just sticking ARM cores alongside outdated GPU tech? AMD is actually planning their own, original ARM core designs.

And as far as the whole "adding value" thing goes, it's not about TressFX, it's about how AMD has had far more Gaming Evolved titles than Nvidia has had TWIMTBP titles... They've had Metro and Batman, Crysis 2, but AMD has had FAR more over the past year. I can assure you they are very focused on developer relations, in a positive way, while any game Nvidia is affiliated with ends up with BS anti-AMD tweaks (Crysis 2, Batman, Metro:LL...).

I think everyone is going to be very impressed with Hawaii in the next few coming months.
I highly doubt , even if that is done, it is a one way street.
But I know from reading here it is better not to argue that with you.

-ST
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old June 11, 2013, 10:13 AM
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I highly doubt , even if that is done, it is a one way street.
But I know from reading here it is better not to argue that with you.

-ST
Come on ST Fling the Proverbial fish at the Sushi man :P

But I think in all reality both brands had their good and bad sides and in all reality both brands have come so far in the past years, sure we can dig into the fanboism that "everything is old hardware just rebranded" but if that was the case then my old MX440 and rage pro 128 should still be rocking the 1080 gaming environments :P haha

I have a 770 for my main rig now... only because it was free otherwise I would of been very happy waiting with my 660 till I got to see what AMD brings to the table as well.

To stay alive in the industry now you have to always give it your all and innovate.

I think if your still just picking team red blue or green due to your fancy love of colours you will never get the full awesome PC experience you could with the mixed cornucopia of branding colours :P
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old June 11, 2013, 10:18 AM
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Thats OK ST...I will.

AMD also uses their program to make games with 'BS anti-NV' tweaks. Both companies do it. Its more a case of diverging underlying tech than say what MS used to do (aka you want to USE xyz....use our tech or you are SOL).

Right now both are viable options. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. AMD still are very weak on drivers. NV are weak on higher res gaming from a ram and bandwidth bottleneck. As for still unreleased tech...lets not get ahead of ourselves. Remember Bulldozer and its promises?
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Old June 11, 2013, 10:23 AM
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Thats OK ST...I will.

AMD also uses their program to make games with 'BS anti-NV' tweaks. Both companies do it. Its more a case of diverging underlying tech than say what MS used to do (aka you want to USE xyz....use our tech or you are SOL).

Right now both are viable options. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. AMD still are very weak on drivers. NV are weak on higher res gaming from a ram and bandwidth bottleneck. As for still unreleased tech...lets not get ahead of ourselves. Remember Bulldozer and its promises?
I sure do that was the end of AMD AM series for me went from 939/am2/am2+/AM3 then got the ever awesome 8150 and AM3+ and the great AMD exodus happened at my house all my AMD systems left to be replaced quickly with Ivy systems and one FM2 cuz at least they did that right.

I hold a vigil for them hoping that some day their ship will return. but I do not hold my breath and for now I will buy myself a 4770k for OC fun only haha
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old June 11, 2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AkG View Post
AMD also uses their program to make games with 'BS anti-NV' tweaks. Both companies do it. Its more a case of diverging underlying tech than say what MS used to do (aka you want to USE xyz....use our tech or you are SOL).

Right now both are viable options. Both have their own strengths and weaknesses. AMD still are very weak on drivers. NV are weak on higher res gaming from a ram and bandwidth bottleneck. As for still unreleased tech...lets not get ahead of ourselves. Remember Bulldozer and its promises?
I don't remember any prominent examples like Batman or Crysis 2 from AMD's side, sure at launch Nvidia may not have the opportunity to make optimized drivers, but I'm talking issues like Crysis 2's tesselation (same issue in Metro:LL). Either way, it doesn't happen often, and I'd rather it stay that way!

Crossfire drivers are still a sore point for sure. Can't recommend a CF setup at all until the prototype drivers are out the door. But I think besides that, AMD has pretty solid drivers. Far Cry 3 is still a weak link, but it's not like they have as many issues as 320.18 (pretty bad for a WHQL release).

Bulldozer was a sad, sad launch. I'm just hoping Steamroller is competitive so that Intel kicks up a notch and we don't have another weak tock like Haswell. Competition is good! And I can guarantee you that Hawaii is going to be very, very competitive, that's for sure
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old June 11, 2013, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Sushi Warrior View Post
I don't remember any prominent examples like Batman or Crysis 2 from AMD's side, sure at launch Nvidia may not have the opportunity to make optimized drivers, but I'm talking issues like Crysis 2's tesselation (same issue in Metro:LL). Either way, it doesn't happen often, and I'd rather it stay that way!

Crossfire drivers are still a sore point for sure. Can't recommend a CF setup at all until the prototype drivers are out the door. But I think besides that, AMD has pretty solid drivers. Far Cry 3 is still a weak link, but it's not like they have as many issues as 320.18 (pretty bad for a WHQL release).

Bulldozer was a sad, sad launch. I'm just hoping Steamroller is competitive so that Intel kicks up a notch and we don't have another weak tock like Haswell. Competition is good! And I can guarantee you that Hawaii is going to be very, very competitive, that's for sure
Tomb Raider TressFX: every "optimization" patch breaks NVIDIA's previous driver fixes.

Dirt Showdown: Specific game-centric rendering optimizations written for the GCN architecture

Shogun 2: initially ran fine on NVIDIA cards. Patch was rolled out that completely broke perf. NVIDIA released a driver update which fixed perf. Two weeks later yet another patch which once again changed the exact optimizations which NVIDIA had fixed. That shit went on for four months after the game's release.

There have been plenty of examples from both camps.
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Old June 11, 2013, 11:22 AM
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You dont remember them because A) you werent looking for them and B) they are as rare as their counterparts. But you want to blithely wave away the AMD 'sins' while damning NV for theirs.

The fact is, it is not like either company are snidely whiplash and hatching plans to break the other guys tech. Both need the other to keep anti-monopoly laws at bay.

Same for saying NVs tech is 'outdated'...but AMDs not even released tech is going to be super awesome. E.G. You keep saying Hawaii is going to be super awesome, but its not out yet. It could be, or maybe it will be a faildozer. No one knows. This sort of reminds of a Simpsons episode where Bart and Lisa are sent to a hellish camp....and Bart rocks himself to sleep saying "Krusty will come. Tomorrow Krusty will come". Right now AMD needs to work on their drivers and sifting through the PR spin...that is what I took away from this Q&A. AMD wants to reconnect with gaming enthusiasts who they have burned. I hope they do. I want to see a 8990 @ 4 bills and a 780 at the same.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old June 11, 2013, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Tomb Raider TressFX: every "optimization" patch breaks NVIDIA's previous driver fixes.

Dirt Showdown: Specific game-centric rendering optimizations written for the GCN architecture

Shogun 2: initially ran fine on NVIDIA cards. Patch was rolled out that completely broke perf. NVIDIA released a driver update which fixed perf. Two weeks later yet another patch which once again changed the exact optimizations which NVIDIA had fixed. That shit went on for four months after the game's release.

There have been plenty of examples from both camps.
Do you consider AMD optimizing for Dirt to be bad? They didn't "de-optimize" for Nvidia, they just made it work better under GCN. If you consider that bad, then Crysis 2 and Metro:LL with their over-tesselation which hurts performance on both AMD and Nvidia, but less so on Nvidia, are much more significant.

Driver fixes are easily broken with patches - drivers are made to work with specific builds of the game, if you change the thing the driver addresses, the driver fix no longer works. I think that's just the nature of specific optimizations (especially if the dev made the patch changes without access to Nvidia's drivers, which I can definitely see happening).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
The fact is, it is not like either company are snidely whiplash and hatching plans to break the other guys tech. Both need the other to keep anti-monopoly laws at bay.

Same for saying NVs tech is 'outdated'...but AMDs not even released tech is going to be super awesome. E.G. You keep saying Hawaii is going to be super awesome, but its not out yet. It could be, or maybe it will be a faildozer. No one knows. This sort of reminds of a Simpsons episode where Bart and Lisa are sent to a hellish camp....and Bart rocks himself to sleep saying "Krusty will come. Tomorrow Krusty will come". Right now AMD needs to work on their drivers and sifting through the PR spin...that is what I took away from this Q&A. AMD wants to reconnect with gaming enthusiasts who they have burned. I hope they do. I want to see a 8990 @ 4 bills and a 780 at the same.
I think both AMD and Nvidia are just equally at fault for playing dirty. AMD aren't angels, they would take advantages if given them I'm sure. Nvidia just seems to make advantages, not take them as they come.

I say Hawaii will be strong for good reason, I have much more experience with it than you think I do And yes I can't wait to see more reasonably priced high end cards! Competition is great
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old June 11, 2013, 12:19 PM
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Metro: LL is over-tessellated? That's news to me.

Metro 2033? Yeah. LL? Nah.
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Old June 11, 2013, 12:21 PM
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Metro: LL is over-tessellated? That's news to me.

Metro 2033? Yeah. LL? Nah.
Last Light uses/used tesselation on flat surfaces I think there was an early patch that fixed some issues, but it's similar to Crysis 2 in that aspect.
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