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  #61 (permalink)  
Old May 24, 2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AkG View Post
As AMD fans are want to do....you forgot to include NOISE in your equation. Your vaunted 7970 is EIGHT TIMES louder than a 780 (3db == double. so thats twice, twice of twice...and twice of twices' twice). Thats not even in the same ball park. Add in ststststsststuttering in Crossfire and AMD needs an answer to the 780...and needed one yesterday.

Or as Sky put it:
"But is the GTX 780 really worth nearly 45% more than a HD 7970 GHz Edition? To someone who cares about worry-free display overclocking, multi monitor support, multi card fame delivery, quieter fan speeds and properly implemented stereoscopic software, absolutely."

So yeah the AMD 'solution' is to ignore the high end...and hope NV's latest gen doesnt scale down very well. It hasnt worked out all that well for AMD on the CPU front...here is to hoping they get 'lucky' on the GPU front.
Man, no need to be so aggressive, I'm not an AMD shill, I own a 460Ti now and a GTX260 before that and an 8800GT before that and 7300GS's before that. Yes, the 780 has a nicer cooler and is quieter, which I do care about myself.

Stuttering will be long forgotten in a months time, the prototype driver fixes any problems. Why did they need a new card "yesterday"? Do you think that Nvidia and AMD coordinate dates for card launches? New cards involve lots of crystal ball gazing and lots of long term planning, which AMD is currently doing... and Nvidia sidestepped by launching a rehash series. Just wait for Hawaii, it isn't that far off anyways.

GK110 will never scale down well. GK104 scales down well because Nvidia cut features out (like compute), GK110 is big and complicated and won't scale down nearly as well. Otherwise the 7xx series would be 110 based, but instead Nvidia is "blessing" us with refresh cards. Bad AMD! Didn't you know there's a bunch of suckers out there who just want more refreshes? We can keep it your way and see a GTX880 with a full blown GK110 and 5% better than a Titan! Is that what you want? Constant refreshes without much actual innovation? I'd rather 30-50% leaps every 2 years than nickel and dime 15% jumps which are just ploys to pull more money out of "enthusiast" pockets.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old May 24, 2013, 02:53 PM
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AMD already refreshed the HD7970 with the "GHz Edition". That chip simply won't go any faster. I think that's what AkG means by say they need a new card like yesterday as their current architecture is already maxed out.

NVIDIA can still tinker with GK104 and perhaps GK110 to push extra clock speed out of them. AMD already played this card though, putting them further behind.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old May 24, 2013, 02:54 PM
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Dude Im not calling you a shill. I didnt even call you a "fanboi". I said AMD Fans were trying to cherry pick there data and were wrong. Then I showed you why you were wrong.

Stuttering has been around for years. I will see the solution...THEN I will believe it.

They need a card yesterday as what do you think is going to happen in the short term? All those 680s left in stock are going to be slashed and sold ASAP. By then a 770 will be out....and where will AMD be? Further behind the 8 ball. A couple months of driver development is HUGE. This is a big advantage AMD will have to overcome. IE their tech will have to be better than NV latest gen...just to make up for immature drivers.

You keep making declarative statements on future tech that is not out yet. I assume you are breaking NDA and not just talking out your butt? IF not, then maybe you are starting to cross the line into fanboi terrirtory...and need to step back before calling out Skymtl for being biased ("I just don't feel it's accurate to call it "amazing value", that's misleading to consumers and not appropriate for a review IMO.")....as so far nearly every statement has been biased. I personally am biased right now. I am biased towards low noise, high performance equipment that scale well in multi-gpu configs.. These are areas that AMD are very weak in. When this changes...then yes AMD will be back in the running for my dollars. YMMV
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Old May 24, 2013, 03:04 PM
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Great review! Will there be a future update for this review to compare 780 SLI with other SLI/Crossfire configurations?

^^^ Kinda pointless really, based on the single card "thumping" of 780 vs 680, its pretty obvious what 780 SLi is going to do ;)
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Old May 24, 2013, 03:05 PM
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At this moment AMD cards can't fight with nvidia cards,but renember that you can have a quiet 7970,Asus for example...

I think that Nvidia should not push the price like that,nobody wants that,but AMD could move their and make Something new or powerful,instead of making a useless 7990.

Amd price/performance is good but their cards are a bit weak on the high end range,Nvidia are playing with the guys who are like : IT'S NEW IT'S AWESOME I WANT IT NOW I CAN'T WAIT! And this is bad,Nvidia

What is true is that SLI/crossfire kinda suck,you pay the double and you don't even know what performance you will have,it is terrible....
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Old May 24, 2013, 03:12 PM
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^^^^ Please dont summarize SLi and Crossfire in the same problematic phrase....really?...you think I'm going to buy 2 high end Cards that dont play well together? .waste my hard earned $$$$ on "broken" SLi..Really bud...
Scaling from single Card to SLi is HUGE when running 2560 x 1440 ....games go from "barely playable" to fvck me, what a difference
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old May 24, 2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Dude Im not calling you a shill. I didnt even call you a "fanboi". I said AMD Fans were trying to cherry pick there data and were wrong. Then I showed you why you were wrong.

Stuttering has been around for years. I will see the solution...THEN I will believe it.

They need a card yesterday as what do you think is going to happen in the short term? All those 680s left in stock are going to be slashed and sold ASAP. By then a 770 will be out....and where will AMD be? Further behind the 8 ball. A couple months of driver development is HUGE. This is a big advantage AMD will have to overcome. IE their tech will have to be better than NV latest gen...just to make up for immature drivers.

You keep making declarative statements on future tech that is not out yet. I assume you are breaking NDA and not just talking out your butt? IF not, then maybe you are starting to cross the line into fanboi terrirtory...and need to step back before calling out Skymtl for being biased ("I just don't feel it's accurate to call it "amazing value", that's misleading to consumers and not appropriate for a review IMO.")....as so far nearly every statement has been biased. I personally am biased right now. I am biased towards low noise, high performance equipment that scale well in multi-gpu configs.. These are areas that AMD are very weak in. When this changes...then yes AMD will be back in the running for my dollars. YMMV
Skymtl has the drivers, ask him (kidding)

680's are already old news as the 770 is launching next week. I don't see any 680 price cuts, nor do I think there will be any MSRP cuts (street prices, of course, will presumably go down somewhat). AMD won't really be behind the 8-ball, because the 7970GE is still neck and neck with the 770, assuming it will launch for $450.

I'm not breaking any NDA's, that would require a lot more detail I am biased too, everyone has a slightly different bias. I still think it's very fair to say that Sky is a bit off by calling the 780 "good value" just because the Titan costs a ton more. I think that it is misleading as a reviewer. If the people reading this review were about to go buy a Titan, sure that's fair to say. But most would never have considered a $1000 Titan, but now are being told that "$650 is a steal!". That doesn't seem right to me regardless of anyone's bias.

And PS your preferences mean that of course you'll like the current Nvidia lineup, you literally mentioned every positive about them... I could say I like overclocking potential and money and free games and all the other positive things about the 7970, it doesn't mean my preferences are "better" or "more relevant" than yours. It's personal and clearly for you Nvidia is the way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbarker View Post
^^^^ Please dont summarize SLi and Crossfire in the same problematic phrase....really?...you think I'm going to buy 2 high end Cards that dont play well together? .waste my hard earned $$$$ on "broken" SLi..Really bud...
Scaling from single Card to SLi is HUGE when running 2560 x 1440 ....games go from "barely playable" to fvck me, what a difference
With all due respect, what you bought has no relevance to what performance SLI brings. He's not attacking your personal purchase, he's just stating the obvious that SLI and Crossfire both have more problems than single card setups (which is the undisputable truth). Even if there are few problems, it's still more than single cards only.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old May 24, 2013, 03:23 PM
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Yeah,that's what i was trying to say,SLI/Crossfire should bring you x2 performance without frametimes problems in any game,any case to be perfect,btw i didn't even know that he purchased cards recently lol...
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old May 24, 2013, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Warrior View Post
Skymtl has the drivers, ask him (kidding)

680's are already old news as the 770 is launching next week. I don't see any 680 price cuts, nor do I think there will be any MSRP cuts (street prices, of course, will presumably go down somewhat). AMD won't really be behind the 8-ball, because the 7970GE is still neck and neck with the 770, assuming it will launch for $450.

I'm not breaking any NDA's, that would require a lot more detail I am biased too, everyone has a slightly different bias. I still think it's very fair to say that Sky is a bit off by calling the 780 "good value" just because the Titan costs a ton more. I think that it is misleading as a reviewer. If the people reading this review were about to go buy a Titan, sure that's fair to say. But most would never have considered a $1000 Titan, but now are being told that "$650 is a steal!". That doesn't seem right to me regardless of anyone's bias.

And PS your preferences mean that of course you'll like the current Nvidia lineup, you literally mentioned every positive about them... I could say I like overclocking potential and money and free games and all the other positive things about the 7970, it doesn't mean my preferences are "better" or "more relevant" than yours. It's personal and clearly for you Nvidia is the way to go.



With all due respect, what you bought has no relevance to what performance SLI brings. He's not attacking your personal purchase, he's just stating the obvious that SLI and Crossfire both have more problems than single card setups (which is the undisputable truth). Even if there are few problems, it's still more than single cards only.
Please inform me ....I'm quite curious, as I havent had a "single card solution" since 8800GTX, been multi cards since GTX 280 including Tri SLi, what am I missing I know I know Micro stutter...still havent seen that except for that one frame in Vantage........here's my point, do you think us folks running SLi would continue to do so with "problems", likely not, I know I wouldnt drop $1400 on 2 Cards if I was "fighting problems"...hell no....yet the myths continue

And just a "heads-up" going from a single Card to SLi DOES infact provide very close to "Double the Frames" when rendering high end DX11 titles,...pretty cool eh?!

Anyhoo,,,,There will be those that do and those that dont
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old May 24, 2013, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbarker View Post
Please inform me ....I'm quite curious, as I havent had a "single card solution" since 8800GTX, been multi cards since GTX 280 including Tri SLi, what am I missing I know I know Micro stutter...still havent seen that except for that one frame in Vantage........here's my point, do you think us folks running SLi would continue to do so with "problems", likely not, I know I wouldnt drop $1400 on 2 Cards if I was "fighting problems"...hell no....yet the myths continue

And just a "heads-up" going from a single Card to SLi DOES infact provide very close to "Double the Frames" when rendering high end DX11 titles,...pretty cool eh?!

Anyhoo,,,,There will be those that do and those that dont
Single cards don't have any runt problems. SLI and crossfire both CAN have runt problems. Therefore, SLI/Crossfire now have "more problems". It doesn't mean SLI and crossfire have TONS of problems, or are problematic in general. 2 just has more issues than one.

They get ~90% scaling now. Like bliz said, if SLI was perfect they would get 100% scaling. You may have no problems with SLI, which means good decision on 2 for $1400 rather than 1 at $1000 with way worse performance! Some people, however, do have problems, that's just all there is to it.

Oh and specific issues: Artifacting, extra heat/power, missing SLI profiles, worse performance in some games, stuttering, "input lag" according to some, etc. etc. they don't apply to everyone and not everyone experiences them but they exist.
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