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Old May 13, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Default Benchmark methodology discussion for NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 2GB Review

Further questions / comments from raghu78 WRT benchmark methodology in our latest review.
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Old May 13, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Something's missing here...
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Old May 13, 2012, 04:06 PM
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Ya, maybe now the other thread crapping has now run its course.......

I would love to see more discussion here on what some people would consider fair benchmarking acceptable to all.
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Old May 13, 2012, 04:37 PM
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The only truelly "fair" bench'ing acceptable to all would be to follow a specific industry standard (by as many web sites), such as techPowerUp! uses in their acoustic testing, i.e. DIN 45635 (DIN 45635-1650, Ausgabe: 1978-07, Measurement of airborne noise emitted by machines; enveloping surface method, woodworking machines, planing machines). Now, I am not saying that a given tech-site would have to be certified, as that would cost silly amount of money, but have some basic guidelines to follow so readers could have a more apples-to-apples comparison. There still would always be nit-pickers saying that the test-bed at ABC tech is not the same or up to date like XYZ tech, but one would end up with a greater consistancy.

Now, to blow my entire previous suggestion out of the water, and one could argue that these variable factors between bench'ing set-up is a good thing; since you cannot have any one manufacture/vendor tailoring their products to perform well under a limiting level of tests.

People like raghu78, is either payed or has too much time on their hands, and as such fails to see that no tech-site (unless heavyly certified under specific industry standards) will claim some kind of finality/totality with their results.
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Old May 13, 2012, 07:36 PM
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TPU uses a Bruel & Kjaer 2236 which, for simple decibel measurements, is no more accurate than our Extech SDL600.
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Old May 13, 2012, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyMellon View Post

People like raghu78, is either payed or has too much time on their hands, and as such fails to see that no tech-site (unless heavyly certified under specific industry standards) will claim some kind of finality/totality with their results.
My complaint was the general tone of the conclusion from the GTX 670 review is not reflective of the true competitiveness of AMD HD 7970 / 7950 vs Nvidia GTX 680 / 670.

"With performance that comes awfully close to a fully enabled GK104, the GTX 670 poses a nightmare scenario for AMD. Fresh off a round of price drops, they now have to contend with a card that retails for the same price as a HD 7950 but runs dead even with a HD 7970 in everything except multi monitor resolutions. To add insult to injury, the Radeon cards fight a losing battle in the performance per watt and acoustics categories as well. Free game offer or not, without another $50 to $75 shaved off, we canít think of a single scenario where a gamer should choose a Tahiti-based card over the GTX 670. "


Depending on the games GTX 680 / GTX 670 trade blows with HD 7970 / 7950. Custom HD 7900 cards with excellent cooling solutions like Sapphire HD 7970 / 7950 Dual X have been available for more than 3 months now. So the acoustics is a moot point. Do your research and buy the good ones like Sapphire HD 7970 / 7950 Dual X

Sapphire HD 7950 Dual Fan OC Review

"Where the Dual Fan really stands out as unique is in the cooling category. Sapphire has consistently shown that their heatsink engineers are some of the best around and this HD 7950 does nothing but cement that belief in our minds. Not only does the Dual Fan post incredible temperature results at both standard and overclocked speeds but it is almost as quiet at full load as other cardsí idle fan states. "

With HD 7950 OC cards from various vendors having been available from launch day and with overclocking taken into account its very competitive. Look at forums where users have been pushing the HD 7900 series on stock and extra voltage to excellent speeds.

[Official] AMD Radeon HD 7950/7970 Owners Thread

HD 7900 OC cards are available with excellent clock headroom at good prices

Sapphire HD 7950 OC (950 Mhz) - USD 409
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE 100352OCSR Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

Sapphire HD 7970 OC (1000 Mhz) - USD 449
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7970 OC 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card (11197-01-40G)

I will give you a comparison of GTX 670 and HD 7950 both OC'd to their max. Also the games which are shown are games where Nvidia does well. In games where AMD does well which are mentioned below it will not look pretty.

HARDOCP - Overclocking and Performance - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 Video Card Review
HARDOCP - OC XFX R7950 Black Edition vs Radeon HD 7970 - XFX Radeon HD 7950 Black Edition Video Card Review


There are demanding games like Alan Wake, Metro 2033, Crysis Warhead, Witcher 2, Crysis 2 where HD 7900 cards really shine when looking at OC'd performance. You have to realize that it depends on your perspective whether you value the compute performance of HD 7900 series. My belief is when more games use complex compute shaders extensively as in Metro 2033 with DOF the HD 7900 series will truly be appreciated. How you arrive at a certain conclusion depends on your line of thinking. For me the HD 7900 series is a scalable high performance architecture with enough strengths and forward looking design (bandwidth and compute) wrt competition. Performance wise its very competitive. If you believe otherwise so be it. I have stopped losing my cool. So i am ok with your personal attacks.

Last edited by raghu78; May 13, 2012 at 09:22 PM.
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Old May 13, 2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post
My complaint was the general tone of the conclusion from the GTX 670 review is not reflective of the true competitiveness of AMD HD 7970 / 7950 vs Nvidia GTX 680 / 670.

"With performance that comes awfully close to a fully enabled GK104, the GTX 670 poses a nightmare scenario for AMD. Fresh off a round of price drops, they now have to contend with a card that retails for the same price as a HD 7950 but runs dead even with a HD 7970 in everything except multi monitor resolutions. To add insult to injury, the Radeon cards fight a losing battle in the performance per watt and acoustics categories as well. Free game offer or not, without another $50 to $75 shaved off, we canít think of a single scenario where a gamer should choose a Tahiti-based card over the GTX 670. "


Depending on the games GTX 680 / GTX 670 trade blows with HD 7970 / 7950. Custom HD 7900 cards with excellent cooling solutions like Sapphire HD 7970 / 7950 Dual X have been available for more than 3 months now. So the acoustics is a moot point. Do your research and buy the good ones like Sapphire HD 7970 / 7950 Dual X

Sapphire HD 7950 Dual Fan OC Review

"Where the Dual Fan really stands out as unique is in the cooling category. Sapphire has consistently shown that their heatsink engineers are some of the best around and this HD 7950 does nothing but cement that belief in our minds. Not only does the Dual Fan post incredible temperature results at both standard and overclocked speeds but it is almost as quiet at full load as other cardsí idle fan states. "

With HD 7950 OC cards from various vendors having been available from launch day and with overclocking taken into account its very competitive. Look at forums where users have been pushing the HD 7900 series on stock and extra voltage to excellent speeds.

[Official] AMD Radeon HD 7950/7970 Owners Thread

HD 7900 OC cards are available with excellent clock headroom at good prices

Sapphire HD 7950 OC (950 Mhz) - USD 409
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE 100352OCSR Radeon HD 7950 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

Sapphire HD 7970 OC (1000 Mhz) - USD 449
Newegg.com - SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 7970 OC 3GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card (11197-01-40G)

There are demanding games like Alan Wake, Metro 2033, Crysis Warhead, Witcher 2, Crysis 2 where HD 7900 cards really shine when looking at OC'd performance. You have to realize that it depends on your perspective whether you value the compute performance of HD 7900 series. My belief is when more games use complex compute shaders extensively as in Metro 2033 with DOF the HD 7900 series will truly be appreciated. How you arrive at a certain conclusion depends on your line of thinking. For me the HD 7900 series is a scalable high performance architecture with enough strengths and forward looking design (bandwidth and compute) wrt competition. If you believe otherwise so be it. I have stopped losing my cool. So i am ok with your personal attacks.
For the noise reduced custom heatsinks you could say the same about the 570 that it will be even quieter.

At the end of the day unless you are exclusively playing a game where the 7970 beats out a 670/680 nvidia is a better buy. There is no point in denying it and looking up every obscure situation unless you find yourself solely in that situation. Sky has given the most accurate info he can provide and detailed as many situations as he could and has explained the situations. He incourages people to look at other reviews before purchasing and is completely transparent as you have probably come to realize from his responses.

I dont see any more reason that this thread questioning SKY's methodology should continue because all of the information is there to see for those who care to read it and comprehend it. Unless you want to continue with all the specific levels of specific games that amd might come closer to competing with nvidia in...

Bottomline for me is that i like to dabble.in a lot of games and nvidia is better in most categories in the most games and for me nvidia is a better purchase. Your bottomline can be different but I personally believe my bottomline is shared with most people and SKY's review reflects that but also gives all the information the the outliers may need. If you play nothing but metro 2933 on 2560x1600 buy a 7970 for less than the 680 otherwise just get the 680 and same goes for.the 570 if you play nothing but games where amd wins buy amd.

Sorry for typos i wrote this on my cell phone.
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Old May 13, 2012, 09:19 PM
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Whelp. There you have it....the victim card has now been played.

Canadians or not....try to stir shit up, troll and generally make a nuisance of yourself and expect to be called on it.

If you had stated out in a sane and rational manner people would have taken you more seriously.
If you had commented on the bloody card being tested people would have taken you more seriously (you spent a good half a page talking about 680....not the 670).
If you had not continued to be hostile people would have taken you more seriously.
If you had not PURPOSELY misquoted, misrepresented and out and out ignored conclusion about any "proof" you posted people would have taken you more seriously.
If you had not cursed, swore and acted like a spoiled brat...yup you guessed it....people would have taken you more seriously.

As to your POV....yeah lets take the best in class AMD 7970 and compare against the generic competition...yeah that sounds reasonable.
Lets take OC'ed card and compare it against stock NV results....yeah that sounds reasonable too!
Lets take a review posted weeks ago and compare prices as they stand TODAY to nit pick the price to performance ratio outlined in the older 680 review....yeah that sounds reasonable too!
Lets take OWNERS of the cards word as gospel...as why would they want to think their fancy new toy was anything but best in class compared to the competition! After all consumers are NEVER biased. Just look at you...you are the epitome of neutral!
Lets take a couple games which favour AMD and ignore games which favour NV as those NV biased games are crap / not demanding enough / obviously not "good enough"....yeah thats reasonable too! Never take blend of both to make a rational decision thats for "luzers". Team Red/Green alll the way!!!111!!!!

Protip 1: Compare apples to apples. Stock fan vs Stockfan .
Protip 2: Dont try to compare OC'ed results to stock results...they will vary from card to card
Protip 3: Dont take owner's of the card word as anything other than biased anecdotal evidence at best....and out right lieing to themselves as worst. Humans lie....even if they dont intend to. Its our nature.
Protip 4: Some games are optimized for AMD some for NV...both companies spend a LOT of money with developers to gain an advantage.
Protip 5: Dont spout wild conspiracy theories....it just makes you look like a nut.
Protip 6: Never call into question the integrity or intelligence of a reviewer WITHOUT iron clad proof that is vetted by OTHERS.
Protip 7: Dont be a douche.
Protip 8: Dont curse and swear.
Protip 9: Dont paly the victim, region or race card. We are just as likely to burn it for you.
Protip 10: Dont misquote other reviews as "proof". We are not so lazy as to not click a link (or have already read them) and will call you on your BS.
Protip 11: Dont start a conversation by stating that the reviewer is biased / paid off / etc.
Protip 12: Post in the right bloody thread.
Protip 13: If you want to have a conversation in a thread....LISTEN to other people's responses...dont just try and shout them down.
Protip 14: Dont double post. IF you have more info to add...add it in to the original. Many people have "subscribed" to a thread and getting multiple emials for ONE pov is annoying.
Protip 15: There is an ignore option. You probably will want to add me to it....as I am opinionated, will call anyone on their BS and generally call them as I see them. Love me...loathe me. Dont care.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post
{snip}

There are demanding games like Alan Wake, Metro 2033, Crysis Warhead, Witcher 2, Crysis 2 where HD 7900 cards really shine when looking at OC'd performance. You have to realize that it depends on your perspective whether you value the compute performance of HD 7900 series. My belief is when more games use complex compute shaders extensively as in Metro 2033 with DOF the HD 7900 series will truly be appreciated. How you arrive at a certain conclusion depends on your line of thinking. For me the HD 7900 series is a scalable high performance architecture with enough strengths and forward looking design (bandwidth and compute) wrt competition. Performance wise its very competitive. If you believe otherwise so be it. I have stopped losing my cool. So i am ok with your personal attacks.
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Last edited by AkG; May 13, 2012 at 09:25 PM.
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Old May 13, 2012, 09:19 PM
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You dont get it though do you? A reference card that is a step down from the 680 is giving amd's top card issues in games at resolutions that represent a vast amount of users (myself included). Also your saying that cards that need to be OC'd so that they can run with a NON OC'd card? really? that doesnt make sense man. Thats like saying oh hey my 6850 with an OC can beat a stock non OC'd 6950. Also people got mad at you because you were rudely calling out SKY and HW canucks and saying that they are paid by nvidia and you wondered why you were attacked the way you were?
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Old May 13, 2012, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPhatPaulie View Post
You dont get it though do you? A reference card that is a step down from the 680 is giving amd's top card issues in games at resolutions that represent a vast amount of users (myself included). Also your saying that cards that need to be OC'd so that they can run with a NON OC'd card? really? that doesnt make sense man. Thats like saying oh hey my 6850 with an OC can beat a stock non OC'd 6950. Also people got mad at you because you were rudely calling out SKY and HW canucks and saying that they are paid by nvidia and you wondered why you were attacked the way you were?
I encourage you to look at my post where GTX 670 OC and HD 7950 OC are compared
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