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  #121 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 09:39 PM
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I don't think your going to be happy looking at a review based on the same chip..

BUT if you read the 7970 review or any number of older AMD reviews you'll see whats what.. This time round Nvidia are top dogs
My personal opinion is that even if AMD were marginally ahead in sheer performance, their current drivers and support for new games , multi gpu etc suck ass and have done for quite some time..
They did have the support for more than 2 monitors on 1 card going for them but nvidia now have it too.

I think AMD's biggest problem this time round was simply pricing. It put the 7979 out of too many peoples reach and when the 680 hit, it was way out of it's league.
Hell there are still plenty of places that haven't dropped the prices on some cards..

The same thing happens with all cards in the UK... a 680 is about $675.. which is good in 1 way.. There is loads of stock available.. I count 95 680's in stock with 1 lone retailer (and their system only goes to 10 then it's 10+, of which there are many)
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 09:41 PM
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post
Newegg.com - Computer Hardware, Video Cards & Video Devices, Desktop Graphics Cards, GeForce GTX 500 series

There are 14 GTX 580 cards from different vendors in stock in mid - May. You are saying barely any cards in early Jan in the channel. What is this ? And the GTX 580 3GB is at USD 500. Way to go when you speak of value for money.
Again, I don't see your point. An "in stock" indicator could mean 2 or 200. And I don't think you understand what "retail channel" means. It refers to distributors as well as retailers. Head over onto NCIX.com. They gave a real-time distributor stock checker and you'll see that other than some specialized cards (Galaxy MDT, etc.), the GTX 580 is all but nonexistent. The situation was very much the same when the HD 7950 was launched. Granted, the GTX 580 did get a price cut in March.....but did many people care? Methinks not.


Quote:
As you say you can pick apart my logic I can say the GTX 680 / GTX 670 can be made to look better than they really are. I have played BF3. Operation swordbreaker is the most demanding level , especially at the start when they get down from the van. The fps there was the lowest from the entire game.

legitreviews and techreport use Forceware 301.34 for GTX 670

NVIDIA & EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card Review - The Test System - Legit Reviews
Nvidia's GeForce GTX 670 graphics card - The Tech Report - Page 2

Anyway I would like to see your website reviews after the launch of the Radeon HD 7970 Ghz edition (1050 Mhz) . If there is less praise for AMD or not.
It isn't and I don't know how many more times I have to say this. The dip in framerates when you get off of the humvee is due to the system loading the level and NOT from a GPU bottleneck. I have discussed this extensively with the folks at DICE. We actually took the time to work directly with them to determine the most stressful part of the game, and that's the area we chose. It combines high levels of particle effects, large amounts of ambient occlusion and one of the only areas where foliage is affected by large explosions.

You also have to think about it closely: why would we praise AMD for releasing a card that barely matches a GTX 680, consumes a ton more power and is substantially louder? We came down like a ton of bricks on NVIDIA for two of those three points in the initial GTX 480 review. Since we are completely unbiased, we should treat AMD the same way if they drop the ball, right? Right?



Here's the thing: you call us biased. That's your right. By that same right, I can point to any of the sites you linked to, accuse them of being biased towards AMD or being paid off by the folks at AMD PR and then block my ears like you seem to be doing. I'm sure you would agree an action like that would be a completely unreasonable response....so I suggest you stop doing it.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 09:41 PM
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Thumbs up thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
The baseline is in the room I do acoustical testing in, typically around 2AM in the morning.

The testing is done in a closed off section of a basement with acoustical insulation in four walls and the ceiling. IE: 5/8" drywall with a Sonopan backing and ~4" of cellulose acoustical insulation.

Basically, the room is so quiet, you'll hear your ears ringing.
Awesome, thanks.

Last edited by EmptyMellon; May 12, 2012 at 11:07 PM. Reason: thanks
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post
snip..everything
What are you even trying to accomplish here? Save the uninformed masses from misinformation provided by Skymtl, the harbinger of Nvidia doom? While you may have some legitimate points, discussions usually proceed in more fruitful directions when one refrains from making wild unsubstantiated claims and not shoving your own brand of shit down another persons throat. If the articles bother you that much, then stop reading and go to another forum. Frankly I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet

actually..

As for 670 itself, my only issue apart from the slow high end gpu price creep, is the shittastic reference cooler. For a $400 gpu, the thing is an abomination compared to the heatsinks used on previous generations of cards. Only saving grace is that non-ref heatsinks are retailing at the same msrp as reference boards.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 10:58 PM
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Arrow We have our own brains

raghu78 must think us all as morons; unable to research and view other sources of information for added comparison between various tech-sites, regarding specific product reviews. In addition, raghu78 must also, think that we don't have any analytical ability or are incapable of critical thinking and as such feels the need to point out every mind-numbing detail that we would have otherwise missed, because we only care for the cards that are a top of every performance chart.

Until recently, I was looking to acquire an XFX 7770 DD OC (XFX HD 7770 Black Edition Super Overclock 1 GB Review | techPowerUp) (for the home machine; an AMD system) due to it's excellent performance/acoustic metrics. Now, behold the ASUS GTX 670 DC II (ASUS GeForce GTX 670 Direct CU II TOP 2 GB Review | techPowerUp), even better performance/acoustics - from the same tech-site. The price bracket difference is obvious, yet the acoustical metrics are very similar (and both fall within a 620W PSU requirement, of mine). And, until one of them will come down in price that is based on my judgment as an appropriate price/performance, then I'll spend the money.

So, raghu78, please take this message "to your leader": contrary to the marketing department's popular believes, we are not some sheep incapable of making our own judgments based on our own (weird) requirements - we have our own brains, much like you. [Any point beyond this and you're just plain crazy; "and you cannot argue with crazy".]

Last edited by EmptyMellon; May 12, 2012 at 11:10 PM. Reason: "an AMD system"
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 10:59 PM
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Now that I've had time to browse multiple benchmarks to see the different ideas each review came up with, I would like to pick a bone with you:

Quote:
...that retails for the same price as a HD 7950 but runs dead even with a HD 7970 in everything except multi monitor resolutions.
I would say this is an overstatement and a bit opinionated of a statement as (with any game) we find some games just favour the 7970 due to drivers or optimizations. It's mostly accurate to say the 670 trades performance blows with the 7970 but saying it runs dead even is something I chose to say otherwise. If you wish to keep your statement thus, I'm smart enough to process the information on my own and make my own decision, but it just doesn't sit well with me to read it thus.

Quote:
...we can’t think of a single scenario where a gamer should choose a Tahiti-based card over the GTX 670.
My personal opinion is that "it will be few and far between the scenarios where gamer will want to chose Tahiti over the 670."

As always, I always suggest to people to use multiple credible review sites to process the information as no site has the perfect benchmarking process for every game
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old May 13, 2012, 01:31 AM
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The GTX-670 came out just like I wanted it to.It reminds me of when the GTX-480 and the GTX-470 came out .The GTX-670 is just a little bit slower then the GTX-680.My TRI-GTX-470 is still plenty fast ,but now I can get just two GTX-680's and just run SLI and it will be faster and quieter and use less power.I can still do 14,535 in 3DMark 11 and 52,581 in 3D Vantage.I can run the at 1.037v at 780/1780 and keep the fan at 75% ,It is still loud ,but tolerable ,nothing like running them at a 100% and my tempertures stay around 75c at that speed and voltage.I could hold out a while longer and see what the next cards bring ATI and I am sure nvidia will come out with a super card with a higher buss more memory and probbaly more shader units.I could even wait for the Maxwell 22nm chip.But I am fixing to sell my old CPU sytem ,The i7-920 is still plenty fast in games ,I ran it at 4.2gig from day one and it is still going strong.In fact I ran some benchmarks with my i7-920 at 4.2gigs and set my i7-3820 to 4.2gigs and there was only 2% to 3% difference in a lot of games and benchmarks.Onlly in
scientific caculation test did the i7-3820 have a big lead.In fact If I just used my CPU just to play game my i7-920 would have lasted at least another year or two.

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  #128 (permalink)  
Old May 13, 2012, 02:21 AM
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Quote:

Again, I don't see your point. An "in stock" indicator could mean 2 or 200. And I don't think you understand what "retail channel" means. It refers to distributors as well as retailers. Head over onto NCIX.com. They gave a real-time distributor stock checker and you'll see that other than some specialized cards (Galaxy MDT, etc.), the GTX 580 is all but nonexistent. The situation was very much the same when the HD 7950 was launched. Granted, the GTX 580 did get a price cut in March.....but did many people care? Methinks not.
Nvidia terminated GTX 580 production in late Q1 it seems. So I don't understand how stocks could dry up when HD 7950 launched. Both of us don't know newegg stocks for each of the GTX 580 cards. So I would not speculate.

Nvidia terminates GeForce GTX 580 production
NVIDIA Stops Production of GeForce GTX 580 | techPowerUp


Quote:

It isn't and I don't know how many more times I have to say this. The dip in framerates when you get off of the humvee is due to the system loading the level and NOT from a GPU bottleneck. I have discussed this extensively with the folks at DICE. We actually took the time to work directly with them to determine the most stressful part of the game, and that's the area we chose. It combines high levels of particle effects, large amounts of ambient occlusion and one of the only areas where foliage is affected by large explosions.
I loaded Operation Swordbreaker and played again on my Radeon HD 6950 with Ultra MSAA 4X at 1080p. I waited till the initial loading and non interactive portions completed and fps stabilized in fraps. I saw till I got to the discussion table fps in low 30s and sometimes high 20s. Similarly later in the level in the first fight in the parking garage fps was in the 30s and occasionally went to mid 20s where cars were blowing up with smoke and fire effects and there was lot of fighting onscreen.
I played the Rock and Hard place mission where you come down the road after the fight in the dense forest region. And you face more enemies in the open region and I could see similar fps around early 30s dropping sometimes to mid to high 20s . I seriously didn't feel that Rock and Hard place was far more demanding than the fight in the parking garage in operation swordbreaker. I can call it at best case similar.

HARDOCP - Configuring and Testing Battlefield 3 - Battlefield 3 Single Player Performance and IQ Review

"To test the single player campaign in Battlefield 3, we first played through the game in its entirety. At the end of testing, we found that the first complete mission, Operation Swordbreaker, offered the most challenging graphics and lowest performance. To test that level, we used FRAPS to record framerates for approximately the first nine minutes. During that time, the Marine team of which we were a part moved through a densely detailed urban area in Iraq. There was plenty of combat, both indoors and outdoors. We ended the test procedure with the destruction of a hotel to silence an insurgent sniper."

HARDOCP - Battlefield 3 - Sapphire HD 7970 OC Edition Video Card Review

If you look at the 4X MSAA fraps graph HD 7970 (950 Mhz) and GTX 680 they tail each other very closely except the last 20% where the GTX 680 is ahead. Also to my observation GTX 680 is more spiky (indicative of Turbo padding the average fps) than Radeon HD 7970.

It would help if you include a fraps graph of the tests as atleast as a downloadable zip file, if you can't clutter up your webpages with those graph charts. I am still not able to come to terms that there can be such a drastic performance difference between your bench and others like hardocp


Quote:
You also have to think about it closely: why would we praise AMD for releasing a card that barely matches a GTX 680, consumes a ton more power and is substantially louder? We came down like a ton of bricks on NVIDIA for two of those three points in the initial GTX 480 review. Since we are completely unbiased, we should treat AMD the same way if they drop the ball, right? Right?
I have always felt this. The GTX 480 got much less credit than what was due to it. The GTX 680 is getting much more credit than is due to it. The GTX 480 was a very ambitious chip. The DX11 implementation of GTX 480 shows it true worth today in games like BF3, Crysis 2 and also past games like Metro 2033. AMD HD 5870 gets decimated in these games by the GTX 480. GTX 480 was a true flagship not a pretender. It had some problems like heat or power consumption , whether it was due to design or manufacturing I don't know. But were rectified in 6 months with a respin.

My opinion is the tables have changed this generation with AMD having the more aggressive chip and Nvidia having the more conservative chip. Might look closer today but my guess is we have to wait and see when more demanding games come out in 2012 and 2013 like crysis 3 and metro last light. Alan Wake shows what a really demanding PC game can do to the GTX 680. Anyway each person has his own unique way of thinking. I feel whatever my doubts on the hwc results and conclusions I will avoid any more allegations. Thanks for replying to my questions even after I personally attacked you and I apologize if I hurt you.

Last edited by raghu78; May 13, 2012 at 03:04 AM.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old May 13, 2012, 03:26 AM
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That post was much more constructive. :)

The tone alone made it easier to read.
Everyone is allowed their opinion and I don't think anyone here will refute that But your initial posts were very aggressive and from the reactions, pissed many off..

Nice to see that you can cool it and think rationally and discuss things rather than throwing accusations.


Back to the cards:

While I see there is a difference in each card to each game I still believe that the Nvidia's have the edge in performance.
The AMD's are not bad cards. I think they are quite good actually..
HOWEVER..
I also believe that the support is better from Nvidia and add into the mix that the Nvidia's were priced much better from launch,
means for me they are the clear winner currently and I will keep advising anyone who asks me IRL or generally on these forums to go for the Nvidia's..

Just call me biased.. :P (kidding, AMD sort it out and I'll go back to them again)
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old May 13, 2012, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzzope View Post
That post was much more constructive. :)

The tone alone made it easier to read.
Everyone is allowed their opinion and I don't think anyone here will refute that But your initial posts were very aggressive and from the reactions, pissed many off..

Nice to see that you can cool it and think rationally and discuss things rather than throwing accusations.


Back to the cards:

While I see there is a difference in each card to each game I still believe that the Nvidia's have the edge in performance.
The AMD's are not bad cards. I think they are quite good actually..
HOWEVER..
I also believe that the support is better from Nvidia and add into the mix that the Nvidia's were priced much better from launch,
means for me they are the clear winner currently and I will keep advising anyone who asks me IRL or generally on these forums to go for the Nvidia's..

Just call me biased.. :P (kidding, AMD sort it out and I'll go back to them again)
I have a HD 6950 and to some degree can understand what you say. I faced problems with Rage on launch and had to wait till 11.11c to play the game completely. AMD needs to improve their driver quality. They need to work much more closely with developers and have robust launch day drivers.
I feel a Radeon HD 7970 Ghz edition at 1050 Mhz (with upto 1250 achievable in AMD CCC) priced at USD 449 will put them slightly ahead on value which they need to be as Nvidia is the stronger brand with better driver reputation. Its not as though Nvidia users don't have driver issues its just relatively they seem better.
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