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  #111 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Fudd Rucker View Post
owned - this is the reason why I love the reviews here. Not only are the reviews well done, but the reviewers have no qualms with backing up thier work when someone with buyer woes belligerantly badgers and questions thier work.
I have seen tons of posts, like the one quoted above, that simply attack people. you will never get your message across if you all do is 'count points' and are in it to 'own'. forgive me for pointing u out fudd, but your message had just that one word and it raised so many question marks - i've seen ALOT WORSE from others in this thread.

the point is, you lose the message, and granted it is awesome there is a tight knit group of people dedicated to HWC, you must always be composed if you do care. before reading skymtl, i was wondering why there was so such an attack on an individual, misled/malicious or not.

ultimately, you must always be the better people because you have something to preserve. the point is a simple one, try to refute before you attack one's character - your message is lost in finger pointing. even skymtl can tone the mocking a tad bit.

to be clear, raghu was way out of line, but the last few posts after his warning he had better composure :S

i am only saying this to ensure that other opinions have a place, because that is what ultimately will bring change for the better. for all of us.

happy times ya'll, im enjoying this place :)
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  #112 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyMellon View Post
Single slot GTX 670: yes, uber short...ehm...: no
- Galaxy Readies Single-Slot GeForce GTX 670 | techPowerUp
- Another Picture of the Galaxy Single Slot GTX 670 Surfaces - Legit Reviews

So far only the GK107s (GT 640) are "uber short".
Maybe my old eyes are going on me, but from what im gathering on the 670 is the pcb is short, and the extra few inches of space to make it the norm length was just plastic housing for the fan. Although the single slot even with the longer pcb would be fine with me, since my shuttle box wont be blocking all the front panel ports given how cramped itx boards are. Ultimatly im dreaming of a 6.5" single slot passivly cooled version of this gpu. None the less im glad I managed to liquidate my 7970s, and ill be dumping my 3rd for one of these. I have gone through my side window LED fested gargantuan gaming rig phase and looking for something as small and simple as possible. (thinking back to my commodore days with zero moving parts)
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawaMayn View Post
I have seen tons of posts, like the one quoted above, that simply attack people. you will never get your message across if you all do is 'count points' and are in it to 'own'. forgive me for pointing u out fudd, but your message had just that one word and it raised so many question marks - i've seen ALOT WORSE from others in this thread.

the point is, you lose the message, and granted it is awesome there is a tight knit group of people dedicated to HWC, you must always be composed if you do care. before reading skymtl, i was wondering why there was so such an attack on an individual, misled/malicious or not.

ultimately, you must always be the better people because you have something to preserve. the point is a simple one, try to refute before you attack one's character - your message is lost in finger pointing. even skymtl can tone the mocking a tad bit.

to be clear, raghu was way out of line, but the last few posts after his warning he had better composure :S

i am only saying this to ensure that other opinions have a place, because that is what ultimately will bring change for the better. for all of us.

happy times ya'll, im enjoying this place :)
Totally agree. We enjoy spirited discussions on these forums so let's not shout people down just because they feel something may be odd with one of our reviews or results.
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Totally agree. We enjoy spirited discussions on these forums so let's not shout people down just because they feel something may be odd with one of our reviews or results.

So glad to see this and ottowa's posts.
The reaction was a bit harsh and not what I was expecting from here.
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 09:05 PM
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Question Acoustics

SKYMTL, as I am currently on a hunt for a quiet and as powerful GPU as possible (within a 620W PSU), I have been keeping an eye on numerous reviews with acoustics/noise graphs.

Could I trouble you to briefly qualify what the "Baseline" (of 33.9 dBA) in the Acoustics graph is representing - i.e. ambient/normal test-room acoustics w/o the test bed running? Thank you.

Last edited by EmptyMellon; May 12, 2012 at 09:07 PM. Reason: sp
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmptyMellon View Post
SKYMTL, as I am currently on a hunt for a quiet and as powerful GPU as possible (within a 620W PSU), I have been keeping an eye on numerous reviews with acoustics/noise graphs.

Could I trouble you to briefly qualify what the "Baseline" (of 33.9 dBA) in the Acoustics graph is representing - i.e. ambient/normal test-room acoustics w/o the test bed running? Thank you.
The baseline is in the room I do acoustical testing in, typically around 2AM in the morning.

The testing is done in a closed off section of a basement with acoustical insulation in four walls and the ceiling. IE: 5/8" drywall with a Sonopan backing and ~4" of cellulose acoustical insulation.

Basically, the room is so quiet, you'll hear your ears ringing.
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
135 bucks per 1K of 230 grain'ers. You need to reload mate....havent bought ammo in years.

@ the great ragu spaghetti sauce...I wasnt the one cursing and swearing earlier in the thread now was I? You were, and the mods had to spank you for it....and edit your post.

Objectively speaking...you are a troll or a paid fanboi. So get a life. Seriously...get a life and find a better company to work for.

we all know who sound like Nvidia PR

HD 7970 Price Cuts? Don

"Through a few well placed sources in the retail chain we hear that backorder queues for the GTX 680 are filling up faster than AMD can sell HD 7900-series cards. "

So you now have become a market research company like NPD.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post5076770

"It is a whole different ballgame when you have 1GHz HD 7970s that may JUST BARELY compete against a GTX 680 and yet are going for $575 to $599. These guys (ASUS and MSI among others) will have a seriously hard time selling their cards. "

Your statements are awfully motivated for a neutral website. When the GTX 580 was selling at USD 499 against the HD 7970 at USD 549 did you do this research of how much the GTX 580 will "have a hard time selling" or that the GTX 580 is priced wrong.

HD 7970 Price Cuts? Don’t Count on it. - Page 2

"Not really, but they mesh almost perfectly with retailer numbers I have seen. To be honest, it was even more of a landslide with the GTX 570 outselling the HD 6970 at a 4:1 and at certain retailers a 6:1 ratio. "

This comment in a HD 7970 price cuts topic takes the icing on the cake. You seem more bothered about proving Nvidia product sales and popularity to the public than being objective in your benchmarks.


Has there been a single HD 7970 OC review like the one below

HARDOCP - Introduction - Sapphire HD 7970 OC Edition Video Card Review

"
The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 had a hand up in performance on the stock Sapphire HD 7970 in every game. The Overclocked Sapphire HD 7970 OC Edition crushed the GeForce GTX 680 though in every game providing the best performance and gameplay experience.
"

The above statement is a good indication that the HD 7970 has excellent OC potential and good scalability. Overclocked across a wide range of games (not just Nvidia reviewer guide games) the HD 7970 OC will win more than lose against a 680 OC with the added advantage of GPGPU and compute performance leadership. According to you GPU buyers should not consider the OC headroom and performance scalability of HD 7970 OC when comparing with GTX 680 OC. Both cards have clock ceiling around 1.3 - 1.35 Ghz on air.


Whats your website's primary business ? Being a vendor neutral technology product review website or tracking GPU retail sales or Nvidia PR division ? Stop trying hard to look objective and neutral. Its a futile case.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 09:55 PM
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Raghu, what in the world are you trying to do? Every time I back up my thoughts with sound reasoning, you come up with something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78 View Post
we all know who sound like Nvidia PR

HD 7970 Price Cuts? Don

"Through a few well placed sources in the retail chain we hear that backorder queues for the GTX 680 are filling up faster than AMD can sell HD 7900-series cards. "

So you now have become a market research company like NPD.
What does NPD have to do with this conversation. I'll have you know that it was WEEKS after that article was published that AMD reduced their prices, clearly proving my point that they wouldn't react right away. Seems in that case, I had the "scoop" before anyone else.


Quote:
"It is a whole different ballgame when you have 1GHz HD 7970s that may JUST BARELY compete against a GTX 680 and yet are going for $575 to $599. These guys (ASUS and MSI among others) will have a seriously hard time selling their cards. "

Your statements are awfully motivated for a neutral website. When the GTX 580 was selling at USD 499 against the HD 7970 at USD 549 did you do this research of how much the GTX 580 will "have a hard time selling" or that the GTX 580 is priced wrong.

This comment in a HD 7970 price cuts topic takes the icing on the cake. You seem more bothered about proving Nvidia product sales and popularity to the public than being objective in your benchmarks.
What's your point? When the HD 7970 hit, there were barely any GTX 580 cards in the retail channel to begin with....so what would have motivated NVIDIA to cut prices if the card was going to EOL status?

And just to back this up, another site came out JUST THE OTHER DAY, saying the exact same thing as we did...only weeks later:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 Launch Review - Page 16 - Conclusion

Another aspect AMD touched on was the availability of their Southern Islands cards, which is sort of a red herring. It is true AMD's 7000 series graphics cards are more readily available in the market, but the fact of the matter is this has nothing to do with production. Instead the issue is Kepler based graphics cards are in high demand. We have talked to a few retailers and the word from them is Kepler is selling at nearly a 4 to 1 ratio over Southern Islands. This leaves plenty of volume available for AMD, but makes it appear as if Nvidia is lacking the same volume, when this is not necessarily the case.

Are you now going to say that one of the largest gaming sites on the planet is in NVIDIA's pocket too?

You seem to be in a state of abject denial here.....

Every one of your points I can pick apart again and again while you dance around the issue: for every one of the websites you link, I can link another that says the exact opposite.

I'll put this simply since you are failing to understand the obvious:

Our reviews of the HD 7900 series were ULTRA positive.

AMD Radeon HD 7950 Review; Tahiti Pro Arrives

AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB Review

Unfortunately, a positive review didn't mean that they would be sales successes. And they weren't. I know you may not want to hear it and you may think it biased but AMD failed miserably with the HD 7970. Not from a performance standpoint, but from nearly every other aspect. It was too expensive, they didn't have sufficient stock until (mysteriously) right before the GTX 680 launch, they haven't been able to stabilize multi card drivers, their reaction to a higher performing / lower priced product was exceedingly slow, etc. etc. Call that biased....I call it cold hard FACTS.

Over the last few years, we've probably given more positive reviews to AMD products than those of Intel and NVIDIA combined.


Quote:
Whats your website's primary business ? Being a vendor neutral technology product review website or tracking GPU retail sales or Nvidia PR division ? Stop trying hard to look objective and neutral. Its a futile case.
I answered that question point blank a number of posts ago. This is NOT my primary source of income....as a matter of fact, the site itself puts nearly no money in my pockets since it is all reinvested in the community. Please go back and read the post.

In addition, our ad marketing is done by sources not associated with reviews in any way.

Again, cold hard facts.
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Our reviews of the HD 7900 series were ULTRA positive.

AMD Radeon HD 7950 Review; Tahiti Pro Arrives

AMD Radeon HD 7970 3GB Review

Unfortunately, a positive review didn't mean that they would be sales successes. And they weren't. I know you may not want to hear it and you may think it biased but AMD failed miserably with the HD 7970. Not from a performance standpoint, but from nearly every other aspect. It was too expensive, they didn't have sufficient stock until (mysteriously) right before the GTX 680 launch, they haven't been able to stabilize multi card drivers, their reaction to a higher performing / lower priced product was exceedingly slow, etc. etc. Call that biased....I call it cold hard FACTS.

Over the last few years, we've probably given more positive reviews to AMD products than those of Intel and NVIDIA combined.
This is what I said (though Sky says it better)

If you think the site is biased you need to look again.. read old reviews.. forget whats been said anywhere else and read the review of that card..
Thats what I love about the reviews here.. That and the detail they cover. Which most other places don't even bother with.
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old May 12, 2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post

What's your point? When the HD 7970 hit, there were barely any GTX 580 cards in the retail channel to begin with....so what would have motivated NVIDIA to cut prices if the card was going to EOL status?
Newegg.com - Computer Hardware, Video Cards & Video Devices, Desktop Graphics Cards, GeForce GTX 500 series

There are 14 GTX 580 cards from different vendors in stock in mid - May. You are saying barely any cards in early Jan in the channel. What is this ? And the GTX 580 3GB is at USD 500. Way to go when you speak of value for money.


As you say you can pick apart my logic I can say the GTX 680 / GTX 670 can be made to look better than they really are. I have played BF3. Operation swordbreaker is the most demanding level , especially at the start when they get down from the van. The fps there was the lowest from the entire game.

legitreviews and techreport use Forceware 301.34 for GTX 670

NVIDIA & EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card Review - The Test System - Legit Reviews
Nvidia's GeForce GTX 670 graphics card - The Tech Report - Page 2

Anyway I would like to see your website reviews after the launch of the Radeon HD 7970 Ghz edition (1050 Mhz) . If there is less praise for AMD or not.
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