Hardware Canucks

Hardware Canucks (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/)
-   Video Cards (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/video-cards/)
-   -   effective quad data rate "qdr ram" + video card = fud (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/video-cards/50296-effective-quad-data-rate-qdr-ram-video-card-fud.html)

jumpload January 10, 2012 02:58 AM

effective quad data rate "qdr ram" + video card = fud
 
Ya im the new guy, but not to computers.

Started with sub 1mgz cpu's on computers with 16k main ram.

Im all so a computer tech so im far from being Joe~Jain user.

I couldn't take it anymore.

Bin looking all over the net and i can't really find any info on were the public relations people got their effective memory speed for video cards and most people out that have commented on the topic don't seem to know anything about what their talking about.

So i figured id reg in and start a active debate on the topic :ph34r:
I was wondering if anyone here knows a thing or two about the topic at hand.

supaflyx3 January 10, 2012 03:56 AM

Please, please learn english. If english isn't your mother tongue at least use google translate so we can get the gist of what you're saying.
I would gladly help you if i understood what you were asking for.

jumpload January 10, 2012 04:24 AM

Ya sorry about that lol.

Speed typing + grammar~spelling are not the best team mates, bad habit from online gaming or something were i can pump out like "just tested my self" 40 wpm transcription 70 normal chat, that is of cores if you can read what i pump out :D

Reading that kind of slop is a science in it self as well i might add.
ask not whut yer kitteh can do fer u,iz not listnin ^^

And ya back on topic.
topic at hand is 4000mgz gddr5 ram vs pc 133mgz sdr = x30% faster, i think not.

jumpload January 10, 2012 10:07 AM

50 views later and no comments hu, i guess ill get to it.

Lets take a look first at how things changed in regards to effective memory speed starting from sdr over time in regards to what the public relations people would like us to think.

100mgz sdr :100mgz real world speed , 100mgz bus speed , 100mgz effective speed

100mgz ddr1: 100mgz real world speed , 200mgz bus speed , 200mgz effective speed

100mgz dd2: 100mgz real world speed, 200mgz bus speed, 400mgz effective speed

100mgz ddr3: 100mgz real world speed, 400mgz bus speed, 800mgz effective speed

100mgz gddr5: 100mgz real world speed, 400mgz bus speed, 1600 effective speed O_o

-------------------------------
performance, number brake down.

100mgz ddr1: 100mgz real world speed , 200mgz bus speed , 200mgz effective speed
{Ball park number +10% speed gain}
http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2001/...i/image004.gif

Quote:

However for todayís applications, the 10% real world performance boost just isnít enough to justify the added cost of migrating to a new platform with new memory for most users. In fact, we never really found out how much of that 10% overall performance boost was from the use of DDR SDRAM and how much was from the 133MHz DDR FSB since the AMD 760 chipset does not offer the ability to run the FSB and memory buses asynchronously.
source:
AnandTech - VIA
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...yE0FRLNZSIDflA

100mgz dd2: 100mgz real world speed, 200mgz bus speed, 400mgz effective speed
{Ball park number +22% speed gain total vs sdr 32% faster so far}

http://oi42.tinypic.com/sg35zl.jpg
ddr1 200mgz vs ddr2 166mgz real world speed
Source
Overclocker Cafe - DDR1 vs. DDR2 - What's it mean to you?

100mgz ddr3: 100mgz real world speed, 400mgz bus speed, 800mgz effective speed
{Ball park number +38% speed gain total vs sdr 72% faster so far}
http://oi42.tinypic.com/2h3pph2.jpg
ddr2 266mgz vs ddr3 166mgz real world speed
Source
AMD Phenom II - DDR2 vs. DDR3 Performance - Benchmarks - Sisoft Sandra :: TweakTown USA Edition
AnandTech - DDR3 vs. DDR2

Quote:

wiki:
GDDR5 (Graphics Double Data Rate, version 5) SDRAM is a type of high performance DRAM graphics card memory designed for computer applications requiring high bandwidth. Unlike its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory which has double the data lines compared to DDR2 SDRAM, but GDDR5 also has 8-bit wide prefetch buffers similar to GDDR4.
100mgz gddr5: 100mgz real world speed, 400mgz bus speed, 1600 effective speed O_o

Sdr 100mgz vs ddr3 at the same real world speed
Reality speed gain 72% vs wight paper effective speed gain 800%

Now seeing as we can't bench ddr3 vs gddr5 lets just give it +10% just for the hell of it

http://oi44.tinypic.com/zy84ux.jpg

ddr3 GeForce real real memory speed 225mhz
gddr5 GeForce real memory speed 200mgz

Quote:

Our results are clear. Except on StarCraft II, where both models achieved the same performance level, the 512 MB GDDR5 model was between 4% and 13% faster than the 1 GB DDR3 model.
source
GeForce GT 440 512 MB GDDR5 vs. 1 GB DDR3 Video Card Review | Hardware Secrets


Sdr 100mgz vs gddr5 at the same real world speed
Reality speed gain 82% vs wight paper effective speed gain 1600%

lalala :whistle:

And notice its called gddr5 not gqdr5

plz feel free to correct me if i missed something.

And btw get ready for warp-drive gddr6 100mgz real world speed 3200mgz fud speed.

Edit:

Sorry about that, im a bone head, my ball back numbers on the ddr2 vs ddr3 where way off, fixed.
added new review link on the ddr2 vs ddr3 topic.
added a little more info,sorry didn't want to be a post count farmer so i just updated this post. :canadianwave:

JJThomp January 11, 2012 08:04 AM

I just let things come in, check the benchies and then I'm impressed or unimpressed. If GDDR6 or whatever they decide to call it is twice as fast in effective speed I really don't know how much of an effect it will have, it is hard to judge whether or not the other hardware will bottleneck it. SO yes it might be much faster but I have no idea how effective it will be.

rommelrommel January 11, 2012 11:30 AM

Go look at the benchmarks of cards that both GDDR3 and GDDR5 available, GDDR5 gives much faster frame rates. You seem way too hung up on certain synthetic benchmarks.

jumpload January 11, 2012 12:09 PM

Agreed JJThomp and im generalizing in a big way with ball park numbers, none the less the real world performance gains vs what the effective memory speed is trying to tell us, is so far off the mark is laughable :blarg:

Sadly if you try and read up on the topic your bombarded with over kill statical information and in most cases this acts as a choke to conceal the real facts.

The real facts being that memory bandwidth has improved over time but at the expense of reaction times,meaning latency and in many cases the wight paper numbers performance wise aren't even close to real world speed gains seeing as only favorable statical information is used to calculate the speed gain with a side order of BS and it doesn't take in the hole picture.

What their trying to do really best i can tell to improve bandwidth is that their doing the same thing as raid for hdd only this time raid for ram chips but in so doing latency gos through the roof.

Remember you can't see the memory timings on a video card ram and its not talked about much.

Same deal with single channel vs duel vs triple vs quad

Single channel VS Duel channel last i checked = 30% performance gain {ballpark number} not +100%~2x and latency jumps, though maximum throughput improves and the memory channels become independent up to a point.

And its all down hill from their.

This could all so explain why cash ram on cpu's has exploded in size as well.
Best guess~ its to keep the cpu from stalling when it requests more data from main system ram and has to wait for the data to come in.

In the mean time it just works with the data in the cash ram as it waits.
Think of this like having the option to increase your download bandwidth as much as you want but at the same time the more bandwidth you have the higher your ping gets.

In the case of gpu~cpu that translates in to a performance loss.

Just try and play a online game with a ping in the 5000 zone, good luck and it wont mater if your bandwidth is 3000 Mbps seeing as client side your software has to wait for the data to come in before it knows what to do next.

Meanwhile the player with a ping in the 50 zone with 1 Mbps is owning you.

Its a trade off, and the way things are going im starting to wonder if we will see the day were cpu cash ram that isn't integrated once more reappears on the market just like in the old 486 computer days were you had your level 2~3 cash ram on the mobo and not on the cpu it self.

think of this like level 2 main system ram {high speed single channel ~ large memory bus bit width}
or level 4 cash ram for i7.
128 megs 2000mgz real world speed + dedicated ram to cpu + 512 bit bus + proprietary ram anyone ? :thumb:

example of level 2 cash ram on a old 486 computer
http://oi43.tinypic.com/156sqyr.jpg

xbox 360 gpu + off die hipper cash ram.

http://techreport.com/r.x/xbox360-gpu/block.gif

http://i42.tinypic.com/5v38mr_th.jpg
Note: they moved on at this point last i checked to more then one memory bus channel for the interconnect to the ram to the memory controller on video cards.

And ill check up after if that was the case as well in the past on some video cards.

jumpload January 11, 2012 12:14 PM

Quote:

rommelrommel: Go look at the benchmarks of cards that both GDDR3 and GDDR5 available, GDDR5 gives much faster frame rates. You seem way too hung up on certain synthetic benchmarks.
Realworld benchmarks are worse then the synthetics :D
And i never said gddr5 isn't better then gddr3 only that gddr5 isn't 2128 mgz effective speed gain vs 133mgz sdr :biggrin:

that's right my 486 AMD k5 133mgz cpu {performance number 100000+} is faster then your AMD phenom II quad core


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:28 PM.