Go Back   Hardware Canucks > HARDWARE > Video Cards

    
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #141 (permalink)  
Old November 13, 2010, 09:00 PM
MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fort McMurray, AB
Posts: 261

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkultra View Post
the point is nobody's going to downclock a 580 but people do OC 480 to 580 speed

guessing is easy to do, actual results is something else
The point is to see how much faster it is clock for clock. And it's about 1/15 faster. That's not a guess, or a coincidence. It also goes to show that the things like z-culling improvement don't make much of a difference.

The GTX 580 is a fully enabled 480 (16 sm's) with better efficiency, and thus is capable of higher clocks, lower power consumption and less heat output. What's wrong with that?
Reply With Quote
  #142 (permalink)  
Old November 13, 2010, 09:13 PM
SKYMTL's Avatar
HardwareCanuck Review Editor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by geokilla View Post
Sorry if it's been posted already, but I don't think it has.

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 Barely Faster than GTX 480 at Same Clock Speeds - Legit Reviews

Underclocking causes the hot clock / chip clock to go slightly out of sync which will reduce overall rendering efficiency and pretty much negate any benefits the GTX 580 has. This makes it absolutely useless for comparative testing. To put this into layman's terms, the architecture is made to operate at a certain minimum speed.

Overclocking the GTX 480 to GTX 580 levels on the other hand will usually result in a 5-8% difference from one chip to the next. 10-12% is possible as well in certain situations.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #143 (permalink)  
Old November 13, 2010, 09:46 PM
MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canaduh
Posts: 376

My System Specs

Default

mikenilli did i quote YOUR post?

at least sky understood, they did the comparaison backward what more can i say
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #144 (permalink)  
Old November 13, 2010, 10:01 PM
MVP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fort McMurray, AB
Posts: 261

My System Specs

Default

Meh, I'm bored. Just throwing in my two cents.

It's interesting that downclocking the 580 didn't seem to affect the results in the Anand review, as SKY mentioned. It was still reasonable faster than the 480
Reply With Quote
  #145 (permalink)  
Old November 14, 2010, 05:42 AM
Sagath's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
F@H
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Petawawa, ON
Posts: 2,479

My System Specs

Default

I didnt actually know that could occur Sky, I've always assumed the major reasoning for clockspeeds was just more design and binning. Its interesting to note what you say; That cards require a minimum speed to run at, or they just plain suck.

As for the rest of the graphs, even discounting what Sky said; Architectural improvements wont show up in every game. Technically from what Ive read about the 580, the changes to the design should make a game like Metro2033 theoretically show more improvement clock-for-clock... Dont forget that in other games, the 580 showed upwards of a 15%+ improvement clock for clock, and then another 10%+ for the clockspeed bump.

Even that metro33 graph still shows a 4% FPS bump, all while drawing ~10% less power at idle AND load, and producing less noise.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpfan4ever View Post
AKG shot the hamsters, and then Perineum drove his Mustang with summer tires into the server.
My Disclaimer to any advice or comment I make;
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroSsFiRe2009 View Post
I'm a self certified whizbang repair technician with 20 years of professional bullshit so I don't know what I'm talking about
Reply With Quote
  #146 (permalink)  
Old November 14, 2010, 06:57 AM
MVP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canaduh
Posts: 376

My System Specs

Default

one thing we have to keep in perspective when talking about 580 performances is the drivers, from when the 480 went out and now, the drivers evolution gave a pretty good boost in game, I'm expecting nvidia to come up with more efficient drivers for the 580 too in the near future
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #147 (permalink)  
Old November 14, 2010, 08:01 AM
SKYMTL's Avatar
HardwareCanuck Review Editor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,611
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagath View Post
I didnt actually know that could occur Sky, I've always assumed the major reasoning for clockspeeds was just more design and binning. Its interesting to note what you say; That cards require a minimum speed to run at, or they just plain suck.
It is usually a case by case scenario but I have seen it happen plenty of times in my own testing. However, it is more than binning. There are very particular aspects within some GPU architectures that act quite odd when underclocked. The GTX 200 series in particular had this issue since shaders / core speed could be clocked separately. It didn't show up in GPGPU apps but doing some thing like underclocking the shaders caused some disproportionately large in-game performance hits.

Fermi cards display almost this same problem even though hot / processor clocks are linked at a 2:1 ratio. Personally, I think this is because once the processor clock is decreased in speed, the rest of the rendering pipeline (TMUs, ROPS, fixed function units, etc) aren't able to operate at peak efficiency since they are sitting around waiting for information.

In addition, we can't forget that any "lower clocked" derivatives of the GF1xx cards also have other changes to their architecture and not just lower clock speeds.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #148 (permalink)  
Old November 14, 2010, 08:28 AM
Soultribunal's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 8,062

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
It is usually a case by case scenario but I have seen it happen plenty of times in my own testing. However, it is more than binning. There are very particular aspects within some GPU architectures that act quite odd when underclocked. The GTX 200 series in particular had this issue since shaders / core speed could be clocked separately. It didn't show up in GPGPU apps but doing some thing like underclocking the shaders caused some disproportionately large in-game performance hits.

Fermi cards display almost this same problem even though hot / processor clocks are linked at a 2:1 ratio. Personally, I think this is because once the processor clock is decreased in speed, the rest of the rendering pipeline (TMUs, ROPS, fixed function units, etc) aren't able to operate at peak efficiency since they are sitting around waiting for information.

In addition, we can't forget that any "lower clocked" derivatives of the GF1xx cards also have other changes to their architecture and not just lower clock speeds.
Yeah I am going to have to agree from my F@H Experiences SKY in regards to this. I found when clocking in all my cards , we would really put all the clocks out of wack in an attempt to push our shades to the absolute limit. And because of that I found that any of my folding rigs would play their games with reduced performance across the board.

ST
__________________




"We know not why he calls for us, only that when he does we must answer" - DMP 2009

"Dear Iceberg, I am sorry to hear about global warming. Karma is a bitch. Signed - Titanic"

I would rather believe and find god doesn't exist than to not believe and find that he does.

www.realhardwarereviews.com
Reply With Quote
  #149 (permalink)  
Old November 14, 2010, 09:13 AM
Banned
F@H
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mtl
Posts: 12,694
Default

so basically if you have a gtx 480 oc from factory, dont buy a 580 unless you need a quieter/cooler card?
Reply With Quote
  #150 (permalink)  
Old November 14, 2010, 09:23 AM
rjbarker's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Courtenay, B.C
Posts: 5,932

My System Specs

Default

Honestly Dan, that is the only thing that appeals to me is the fact that the 580's run cooler.....I'm still debatig on cancelling my 2 x 580's tomorrow AM.....NCIX doesn't have em in Stock anyhow.....gaming last night onmy 2 x 480's and thinking why am I so keen to ditch these 480's? Their friggin awesome......

btw
My 480's are Vanilla Cards and I can OC em huge...up to 825 Core 2000 Memory......higher will Voltage increases.
__________________
Introducing me n my OCD to Watercooling, is like taking an Alcoholic to an "all you can drink" Beach Bar in Mexico

.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 1GB & GTX 460 768MB Review Comment Thread SKYMTL Video Cards 126 August 20, 2010 10:01 AM
Comment Thread for NVIDIA GeForce GTX 470 SLI Review SKYMTL Video Cards 48 April 19, 2010 01:49 PM
Nvidia GeForce GTX 275 Roundup Comment Thread SKYMTL Video Cards 34 June 7, 2009 11:19 PM
EVGA GeForce GTX 280 Review Comment Thread SKYMTL Video Cards 105 July 31, 2008 04:42 PM