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  #161 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
As this is an initial release review, it should only be benchmarked against readily available cards, with a comment in the conclusion as to what Nvidia's response is planned to be. 1 month from now when folks are looking through the graphs for comparisons, the fact that the FTW card hasn't been available for the last 3 weeks, and no new stock is forthcoming will not be indicated and thus a 1 week run of card availability is going to skew the results forever.
I disagree entirely, but in a devils advocate sort of way If we picked up your idea, all of these paper launches wouldnt be able to be reviewed, nor would any 'limited' release that happens so frequently today.

Hell, both Fermi and 5800 wouldn't of been able to be reviewed, since the initial 5800 buys were limited in the low thousands (not 10's or 100' either) for most of the cards on initial launch, and well we all know how Fermi launched...Yet other times cards were 100% paper launch, and we didnt see the card of brand X for 3 weeks. Thus I really think 'availability' shouldnt be a choice in debating the merits of a card. To further illustrate the point; Should we remove 480's from 'new' reviews because they are extremely limited now too, even though nV hasnt released a replacement?

Again, that was just a devil's advocate viewpoint, as generally speaking, I'm against the idea of 'overclocked' cards in 'apples to apples' review. Its only when overclocking the review card in its own review that matters.
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  #162 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by heflys20 View Post
It's more than just one, and the rest appear to be sold out. The the most expensive one is from XFX.

Newegg.ca - 6870

Here's the 460 FTW by comparison:

Newegg.ca - 460 ftw

All 3 of the above 6870' are about $30 (20 with rebate) cheaper. Now, if the prices reflected those on the American Newegg site, it would be a different story.

plus, xfx is the only one that has the double lifetime warranty, so the 40 dollar premium isnt that bad imo
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagath View Post
I disagree entirely, but in a devils advocate sort of way If we picked up your idea, all of these paper launches wouldnt be able to be reviewed, nor would any 'limited' release that happens so frequently today.

Hell, both Fermi and 5800 wouldn't of been able to be reviewed, since the initial 5800 buys were limited in the low thousands (not 10's or 100' either) for most of the cards on initial launch, and well we all know how Fermi launched...Yet other times cards were 100% paper launch, and we didnt see the card of brand X for 3 weeks. Thus I really think 'availability' shouldnt be a choice in debating the merits of a card. To further illustrate the point; Should we remove 480's from 'new' reviews because they are extremely limited now too, even though nV hasnt released a replacement?

Again, that was just a devil's advocate viewpoint, as generally speaking, I'm against the idea of 'overclocked' cards in 'apples to apples' review. Its only when overclocking the review card in its own review that matters.
If I'm reading your response correctly... I think we're actually on the same page.

I don't disagree with reviewing specialty / low stock cards. In fact I love to see them, as it's great to see a company pushing hardware to the limit. What I disagree with is including a piece of kit with questionable availability / pricing as a counterpoint to the competition's gear rather than just doing a separate review.

IMO, where does it stop... if you're going to do this, then why not go a step further and include ES versions from the competitor's research lab which may or may not be released sometime in the next 2 months?

I'll accept a bit of crow if one month from now there is a lot of availability for FTW cards clocked at 850, but while I'm sure there will be FTW cards, I strongly doubt they'll be clocked this high on a readily available card.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 08:43 PM
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No, you're spot on SSW, we do agree. My post was more to highlight further how dirty the whole situation can really become. Its a fuzzy line, and people are really blowing it out of proportion. A+ brother.
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 11:01 PM
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I wonder if graphics cards are finally catching up to technology available in games lol.

i mean, after a while, how much more power could you need?!
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  #166 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 11:09 PM
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I think this "pressure" argument is starting to become more and more common... look what happened with the reviews of Fallout: New Vegas. That's just despicable...
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old October 25, 2010, 03:59 AM
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Look,
BENCHMARKREVIEWS makes us believe that they happened to think that including the 460 FTW would be a good thing...out of the blue...

Quote from benchmarkreview's HD6870 review:
Quote:
Using the manufacturer suggested pricing in conjunction with NewEgg's average product pricing (on 20 October 2010), the price segments reveal a gap. The 1GB GeForce GTX 460 sells for $220, followed by the GTX 470 at $395. This leaves a significant hole in their product lineup, but we've managed to fill it with a $260 factory-overclocked EVGA GeForce GTX 460 FTW for this review.
Lol they "managed to fill it" Lol, nVIDIA made them do it!
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old October 25, 2010, 05:22 AM
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I guess we can't have a product release anymore without the moaning and groaning about fairness and underhandedness. That aside, I'd love to know how a GTX460 FTW would do against a 5850 @ 900/1200
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old October 25, 2010, 06:31 AM
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To be completely honest, I am happy to see that this thread hasn't degenerated into what the Fermi one was way back, so kudos to all the members who are presenting rational arguments

That being said, I think the best of both worlds would be, reference vs reference and then seperate ones beyond that that bring the best FPS for your hard earned dollar.
At the end of the day with only 2 GPU companies out there right now we are bound and constricted to both playing 'dirty pool' in order to win market share.

I've said this many times and I will echo the sentiments, I want larabee from Intel to become reality.
In a triangle of GPU companies it would make for much more interesting competition.

That being said, I like nVidia, and I like ATI. This round goes to the XFX 6850 for me. I like the design, performance. Now I just await the scaling in X-fire to see if its worth the investment.

ST
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old October 25, 2010, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
I'm going to keep my mouth shut about this whole "include an overclocked card" thing because the same request was made of us. I didn't have the time to include it one way or another.

As I said to NVIDIA: how would you have felt if we had tested overclocked HD 5800 series cards in the GTX 400 series launch review? I know for a certainty how that conversation would have turned out...

That being said, I will be including the FTW where it should be included: in an overclocking review.
This is the appropriate methodology IMHO, and as always, thanks for a great review SKY!
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