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  #151 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianHanna View Post
third year in a row for them
Yeah, Nvidia is now being forced to cut prices drastically and try to develop some quick solution cards to compete with the 6xxx series. Even if the speculated 580 and, possibly, 560 (more concept than anything) beat the AMD cards, they're likely to cost substantially more (unless Nvidia wants to lose money). Furthermore, it'd put Nvidia's release dates out of whack; since they're supposed to be releasing a new series in the 2nd Quarter.

And AMD, more than likely, will respond with something like a 6880 or 6875.
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
I'm going to keep my mouth shut about this whole "include an overclocked card" thing because the same request was made of us. I didn't have the time to include it one way or another.

As I said to NVIDIA: how would you have felt if we had tested overclocked HD 5800 series cards in the GTX 400 series launch review? I know for a certainty how that conversation would have turned out...

That being said, I will be including the FTW where it should be included: in an overclocking review.
For keeping your mouth shut about it, that was quite a bit of information ;) but seriously, to to me this is just another example of marketing in action. Companies will always try and spin the hype in their favor, to varying degrees of success. And usually, success depends upon the ignorance of the target market. For example, the majority of people reading first-day reviews of new graphics care are going to know enough about the subject to realize that comparing stock vs overclocked doesn't give an accurate picture; most of us won't fall for it. However, I noticed something last night that the UFC did to try and increase its viewership, and I think it might just work.

I know it's a bit off topic, but stay with me. The Lesnar vs Velasquez fight was promoted as a chance for the first Mexican champion in history or some crap like that. Trouble is, Velasquez isn't Mexican; he was born in California, wrestled and trained at American universities, has never lived in Mexico and only has U.S. citizenship. Does your average guy at the bar know this? Not likely, and if he's of Hispanic descent, he just might get hooked on the UFC when Velasquez wins the title... Which is just what the UFC is counting on. NV is counting on most people not knowing enough about vid cards to be fooled by this bs... In their case, I think it just won't work that well.

If companies put half the time, effort and money into R&D that the put into marketing, we'd all be much happier :)
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 04:59 PM
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While the whole "manufacturer pressure" issue is certainly an ongoing concern, this business at Anand is a case of barking up the wrong tree. I have to seriously wonder if half the people even looked at the review in question. But just to point something out - Anand included both the 768MB and 1GB stock version of the 460 as well. They clearly labelled each card as such, wrote a pararaph concerning how they were given it, and the prices are reasonably similar at this time, even if we're still waiting for those Nvidia price cuts to actually make their way to the consumers. The only people being fooled as those who can't be arsed to read anything before the conclusion. Meanwhile, why wouldn't I want to know how this legitimate option performs? And if ATI doesn't like it, they can get off their ass and offer OC'd cards of their own.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 05:06 PM
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just btw... nobody told us about premium price of evga gtx 460 ftw at $270... :O so i began wonder if nvidia thought we are dumb reader...
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 05:18 PM
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just btw... nobody told us about premium price of evga gtx 460 ftw at $270... :O so i began wonder if nvidia thought we are dumb reader...
I dont know...sounds fair to me considering the 6870s are about that...or more. When looked at from a bang for your buck POV.

NCIX.com - Buy XFX Radeon HD 6870 900MHZ 1GB 4.2GHZ GDDR5 2XDVI HDMI 2x Mini Display Port PCI-E Video Card - HD687AZNFC In Canada.
NCIX.com - Buy Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 900MHZ 1GB 4.2GHZ GDDR5 2XDVI 2XMINI DisplayPort HDMI PCI-E Video Card - 21179-00-40R In Canada.

vs.
NCIX.com - Buy EVGA GeForce GTX 460 FTW Fermi 850MHZ 1GB 4.0GHZ GDDR5 2XDVI Mini-HDMI PCI-E DX11 Video Card - 01G-P3-1377-TR In Canada.

Should it be included in a review....THATS up to the reviewer to decide on a case by case basis. Some peeps only care about getting the most for X dollars. Not about green, red or naming schemes. YMMV.

Personally I'm waiting for a good non reference design 6870 to come out (sorta like a TF from MSI or in a similar vein). THEN I am jumping all over it.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MpG View Post
While the whole "manufacturer pressure" issue is certainly an ongoing concern, this business at Anand is a case of barking up the wrong tree. I have to seriously wonder if half the people even looked at the review in question. But just to point something out - Anand included both the 768MB and 1GB stock version of the 460 as well. They clearly labelled each card as such, wrote a pararaph concerning how they were given it, and the prices are reasonably similar at this time, even if we're still waiting for those Nvidia price cuts to actually make their way to the consumers. The only people being fooled as those who can't be arsed to read anything before the conclusion. Meanwhile, why wouldn't I want to know how this legitimate option performs? And if ATI doesn't like it, they can get off their ass and offer OC'd cards of their own.
Well, the 460 FTW is $30 more than the 6870 at this time on newegg.ca. BTW, if I'm not mistaken, these cards come from Anandtech's own personal stash. Surely they have plenty of OC'd AMD cards on standby to be featured in the review? My problem is, if you're going feature ridiculously overclocked cards in every article, why start now? Where were OC' cards when Nvidia was releasing its products? And don't tell me that a site like Anandtech doesn't have any.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 05:47 PM
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No idea why Anad chose now. No idea why other chose to not do it now.

And it depends on WHICH 6870 you are talking about. Sure the cheapest is 30 bucks less, but most are not. Its still like comparing apples to oranges but I can see that POV on why to include it (oh and Im not commenting on Anads review I haven't read it. And thus have no opinion one way or the other. I just speaking in generalities as they were not the only ones to do it). It is more information for the consumer. Even if DOES muddy the hell out of things if not properly put into context. :)
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 05:51 PM
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but nvidia tried to press to tell us that hd5870 into gtx 460 at same level... and price too... i dont see the reason why gtx 460 ftw at 270cdn while normal gtx 460 at 160cdn...

i assume gtx 460 ftw is equal hd 6870 at most of game and same price... but both has less overclocking room... i assume gtx 260 at $160 (hd6850 $180) is best bet for both money and overclocking (sli too)...
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AkG View Post

And it depends on WHICH 6870 you are talking about. Sure the cheapest is 30 bucks less, but most are not.
It's more than just one, and the rest appear to be sold out. The the most expensive one is from XFX.

Newegg.ca - 6870

Here's the 460 FTW by comparison:

Newegg.ca - 460 ftw

All 3 of the above 6870' are about $30 (20 with rebate) cheaper. Now, if the prices reflected those on the American Newegg site, it would be a different story.
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old October 24, 2010, 06:04 PM
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IMO, the biggest problem with the "it's good to have information" POV is that they've chosen the highest clocked / lowest (zero in most cases) stock OC'd 460 on the market... even the NCIX link is showing only 2 in stock, and that's over a weekend so who's to say if those aren't already spoken for. I honestly believe that these cards are not going to be readily available at any price let alone one that competes with the AMD pricing, and that Nvidia (with the assistance of EVGA) pushed out cherry cards for the reviews. Bad enough for websites to review limited run (almost vapourware) kit on it's own, let alone as a tactic to make the competition's kit look unrealistically weaker. Even the pricing is questionable, as there is some question about the length of the current Nvidia price drops (some suggestions point to no guarantees after 3 weeks).

As this is an initial release review, it should only be benchmarked against readily available cards, with a comment in the conclusion as to what Nvidia's response is planned to be. 1 month from now when folks are looking through the graphs for comparisons, the fact that the FTW card hasn't been available for the last 3 weeks, and no new stock is forthcoming will not be indicated and thus a 1 week run of card availability is going to skew the results forever.
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