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  #51 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 08:36 AM
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Actually i think evga did get to the top by being nice lol, anyone who has an ovga product LOVES their support, warranty, and stepup program. And the 9800gtx+ is indeed a different card its not JUST an overclocked 9800gtx. The new core does allow you to oc a little more and lowers temps as well, how is that the same?

Looking forward to the comparison of all the cards coming up btw :D
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy View Post
Now on to the matter of tests , i really want to believe this site is impartial , i've read many reviews from this website and i usually tend to believe what i see here so i really hope the next test you will do takes into account that there are overcloked products out there that should be considered against some other products that are pushed to the limits ( 9800GTX+ )

I'm not really sure what it would take for you to accept that our reviews are impartial. We go out of our way to ensure that they are, and unlike some sites I feel that our coverage is balanced. Case in point would the be comments by SKYMTL when the last round of "Nvidia driver driven benchmarks" were released on cue by many websites... SKYMTL was quick to point out his displeasure with this style of biased testing.

Ultimately it comes down to looking at all of our reviews together and deciding if you think we're offering a balanced approach.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 09:24 AM
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I don't know how can you see improvement from Nvidia drivers , i said it on other forums that claims of 10-20% will be put to test and tech sites eventually will say if this is true or not , maybe some won't but they can't buy them all.
So to the matter of driver
AnandTech: NVIDIA Fall Driver Update (rel 180) and Other Treats
the improvments are mostly for GTX260 and GTX280 and at very high resolution and AA combination wich renders the game unplayable , if you ask me this is more for the benchmark people not actual gameplay improvement if you can't play the game at that resolution.
HARDSPELL.COM-GeForce 180.44 performances contrasted with the former forcewares
again no improvement
The only improvement are the higher clocks and that's it ( not taking 3dmark vantage wich isn't a game and don't care for it)
The matter of taking fair cards to compare the fairest thing to do is to compare them by price range , 9800GTX+ seems to be $159.99 with rebate and 179 $ without rebate and the reference 4850 seems to be 134$ after rebate and 145 $ without a rebate
Newegg.com - 4850
Newegg.com - 9800GTX+
25 $ with rebates differnce and 34 $ differnce without rebates , are they in the same price range ? not really so how can you talk about comparing stock VS stock and things like that ?
Here is one that beats 9800GTX+ in most games
Newegg.com - ASUS EAH4850 TOP/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards
and is only 139 $ after rebate
4850 is powerfull enough to take advantage of 1gb memory , 9800 series isn't.
bit-tech.net | Review - Gigabyte Radeon HD 4850 1GB (GV-R485MC-1GH)

You say new games would make ATI fans cry even louder ? there is a new game that ATI does so good in it that even the 4850 beats GTX280 in some cases , it's a new game GRID RACER so maybe there is a driver problem but still even now the game runs better on ATI cards and there is another game like far cry 2 wich again seems to work better on an ATI card , a stock 4850 that is also 25-34$ cheaper beats a 9800GTX+ and there is another game wich again :) seems to run better on ati cards and that is NFS undercover
PCGH - Review/Benchmark: Need for Speed Undercover: GPU and CPU benchmark review
What the hell this are all new games , why are they running better on an ati card ? did someone lived under a rock for some time and discovered Nvidia is no more king of the hill ? maybe they are all lying about this , you should do a review with this games and shed some light on it because very few people still play prey and COD4 after they finished it ( maybe MP for COD4 still play).
You can make fun of me but i give you good advice , why are you so resistant to change ? i don't want to offend you or humilliate your tech knoweldge i really want you to help make a better review rarther than a stupid 3dmarks and old games review that no one cares for.
This game choosing for tests is another way to make sponsors happy , if you take some Nvidia games and use some resolution+AA combination that works better for the sponsor's product you get that product winning everywhere but if you take some games like grid racer , far cry2 , NFS undercover and the Nvidia product get's a solid beating especially with AA then how can you say what a great card EVGA has done but still the 4850 is way faster in those game wich by the way are very new have great graphics.
The obvious solution to keep the sponsor happy is to not include those games in the test or to outright lie and say you used a custom timedemo and you get different results than the rest of the world.

Last edited by aguy; December 2, 2008 at 09:37 AM.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 09:49 AM
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[QUOTE=aguy;120634]
AnandTech: NVIDIA Fall Driver Update (rel 180) and Other Treats
the improvments are mostly for GTX260 and GTX280 and at very high resolution and AA combination wich renders the game unplayable , if you ask me this is more for the benchmark people not actual gameplay improvement if you can't play the game at that resolution.
HARDSPELL.COM-GeForce 180.44 performances contrasted with the former forcewares
again no improvement [/Quote}
I never said it was across the entire range of games. Performance improved where it was needed: Dead Space, Call of Duty 4, Source-based games and a few others. The new Nvidia drivers were very much targeted at certain games.

In the end, we can argue scemantics all we want but the fact of the matter is that the 9800GTX+ from EVGA, XFX or BFG is still a better value than any HD4850 at the time of this article and I believe that it still is. Why? Because you are useing AMERICAN pricing which is not the same as we have here in CANADA.

Using our Price Comparison engine you can see what I am talking about:

The Lowest Price for a HD4850 is $180 from Diamond

The lowest price for a 9800GTX+ (from BFG) is $188

Sorry but this is the reality of the situation here and you can't change it. When comparing two cards which are so close in performance yet so close in price ($8 difference), I will ALWAYS go with the one with better warranty and customer support. IMO, both those things add value to a card which many people here who have tried to RMA an ATI card know all too well.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 10:21 AM
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^^ I hear ya!!.. Nvidia manufs have always had better CS and warranty. Evga, BFG and XFX are almost the Kings of Support on Video Cards right now, and BFG has really stepped up lately.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 10:29 AM
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And what do you do about those new games ? they seem to play much better on ATI cards and it's no small 1 frame difference , in some cases in the differnce bettwen playable and not playable.
This kind of reviews are very flawed because of the games that are used and you still resist and claim the 9800 is a better card , well it's not and i wonder how will you explain these words you type after some months when newer games will pop up and 9800 will be even more overwhelmed , you will still use the same game for reviews ? pick them again to favore one or another ? it will be very hard to explain why you didn't use that game or that game.
I tell you man , you live in Nvidia world , i'm not a fan , i've had s3's , trident , riva tnt , Geforce 1 , Geforce 2 mx , 8500 , 9600 xt , x800 xt , 8600GTS , 8800GTS 320mb , 9800GTX+ and now 4850 so from my hystory i tell i'm no fan , actually i'm a fan of best perf. at some price i have in mind and i want to spend and i tell you the 9800 series is very teaked to death very outdated and will be eventually defeted by 4850 in every benchmark ( maybe not all of them but new high tech engine games ) , if you just consider the 4850 has almosy 1 bilion transitors and the 9800 only has 700 milion , pure raw power beats the 9800 , the situation's when 4850 get's beaten are games made specifically for Nvidia's arhitecture but as we move along this games need to step it up with graphics and 9800 will not be able to keep up and not to forget AMD/ATI has a word here too and copied the trend of helping developers if you didn't knew Blizzard who made in my opinion the greatest games of all time will be partenering with AMD/ATI for creating starcraft 2 , diablo 3 and whatever games they will launch in the future , you could say well those games will work great on Nvidia too , let's keep those coments for the people that play single player offline not the hardcore gamers that play huge games online and fast hardweare is need it.
This made me remember another game where ATI does great again , supreme commander , why is this game not in your list of tests ? man this makes me step away form this website even more , there are so many great games you don't include in your reviews i really think now you pick them to favor the sponsors.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 11:22 AM
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Who is this troll?

FYI, Skymtl regularly asks the membership here what games we think should be included for testing on his GPU reviews. It is based on feedback from us, the ACTIVE members, which games he uses.

If you think his reviews are skewed, feel free to go elsewhere for your reading pleasure.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy View Post
This made me remember another game where ATI does great again , supreme commander , why is this game not in your list of tests ? man this makes me step away form this website even more , there are so many great games you don't include in your reviews i really think now you pick them to favor the sponsors.
I won't bother with the rest of your claims, SKYMTL's more than qualified to answer those himself. But you should be aware that Supreme Commander is a bad game for video card benching. The in-game benchmark is not very consistent, and the game relies more on CPU power than it does on GPU power. This was actually mentioned at one point a while ago, but it was agreed that it wouldn't be a very good game to use.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 11:56 AM
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Ah, I love this. Keeps my day interesting.

One of the first things I should say is that both Nvidai and ATI are supporters of this site. This means that I HAVE to be impartial.

Unfortunately, you are starting to sound too much like a troll right now since you aren't listening to reason.

Here we go again:

Quote:
This kind of reviews are very flawed because of the games that are used and you still resist and claim the 9800 is a better card ,
I resist because I CAN. I have hundreds of hours of playing time on EVERY CARD in my reviews and in my opinion (from drivers, to stability, to warranty, etc.) the 9800GTX+ is the better card. You still don't seem to understand that there is much more to being a good card than (in your own words) beating the competition by a few FPS more or less.

Quote:
well it's not and i wonder how will you explain these words you type after some months when newer games will pop up and 9800 will be even more overwhelmed , you will still use the same game for reviews ?
You are talking about the future like you have already seen it. If so, please tell me the following:

1- Where will Jessica Alba be on December 21st? I ask so I can stuff my face in her bosom

2- What will the lottery numbers be here in Canada on December 22nd? This is so I can make bail after being accused of assaulting Jessica Alba


You can't make assumptions based on non-existant performance numbers.

Quote:
pick them again to favore one or another ? it will be very hard to explain why you didn't use that game or that game.
As has already been mentioned: picking which games are benchmarked is a COMMUNITY affair. Granted, I have the last say when it comes to which games are picked but I will ask you to check this thread out to understand the process:

Upcoming GPU Reviews: what YOU want to see

Quote:
i'm not a fan ,
This is the first thing anyone in your position usuall says.

Quote:
This made me remember another game where ATI does great again , supreme commander , why is this game not in your list of tests ?
You ask for newer games to be benchmarked and then you ask for SC to be added?

For your information, the reason SC was never used is the fact that it is CPU-bound more than GPU-bound.

Last edited by SKYMTL; December 2, 2008 at 12:03 PM.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2008, 12:19 PM
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Wow.

This guy really is coming out of nowhere to accuse SKYMTL of being an nVidia fanboy?

ROTFLMAO

Sounds to me like an ATI fanboy.
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