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Old October 2, 2008, 08:33 PM
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Default CPU and mobo performance issue.

Hello All

This is my first post.

but i have a issue

i have a HP D530 SFF
its stock specs are
chipset I865G
P4 2.8ghz non HT 533mhz FSB northwood socket 478
512mb DDR533 (2x 256mb) dual channel mode
Geforce 6800 GT AGP 8x
WD 40gb ATA/100 HDD

i have migrated the hardware out from the SFF case and moved it into a Antec 300 case, bought a Antec Basic 500w (BP500U model) so i could use my 6800 GT on it. and all works well, had to slightly mod the Antecs front USB header connector to work on the HP mobo but it now works.

but here is where it all starts to go wrong. yes i know its a old system. i bought a P4 3.2ghz HT 800mhz FSB northwood CPU, and 2gb DDR400 (2x 1gb sticks) for dual channel mode.

i ran benchmarks on the stock setup so i could compare the difference once i installed the faster parts.

with the stock parts in sandra the memory bandwidth benchmark shows 3.5gb/s, and a latency of 140ms, i also used a software OC tool and used its benchmark, the ram tested the same, but also includes a L1 cache benchmark which showed 10.3gb/s read and 14gb/s write.

i put the new hardware in (3.2ghz HT 800mhz FSB, 2x 1gb DDR400) and ran the benchmarks, right off the bat i seen the system didn't boot as fast. i ran sandra and the memory bandwidth benchmark showed only 1.5gb/s , memory latency was 450ms +. i ran the OC programs benchmarks and the memory bandwidth test showed 1.5gb/s and showed the L1 cache read was 5gb/s and write was 6gb/s. i did the same with HT disabled and got about the same results. i even tried single sticks which resulted in almost identical scores as below.

i double checked in bios that the CPU was operating at 3.2ghz 800mhz FSB, and the ram was being seen as DDR400 in dual channel, also checked sandra and showed me hte same and also showed a low memory bandwidth warning saying the timings are set wrong or the memory was in safe mode.

figuring that it might be the Ram cause the low numbers and slower performance i put the DDR533 in it and gave it another run (knowing that the DDR533 will get under-clocked when paired with a 800mhz FSB CPU). but i ran all of the benchmarks and the memory bandwidth test showed 1.06gb/s and a latency of 500ms, and the same on the OC program and showing the L1 cache even slower at 4gb/s read and 5.3gb/s write.

so i removed the stock ram and put the new ram back in, and removed the 3.2ghz CPU and put the stock CPU back in. ran everything again it got the same benchmarks as the first time i ran it and was back to the same level of performance.

the mobo is suppose to support 400, 533, and 800 mhz FSB, DDR2100, DDR2700, DDR 3200 in single or dual channel mode.

i am not sure what happened. but i didn't expect to have a big performance loss like it did. can someone help shed some light i this. could the CPU be going bad or could the mobo not like running at 800mhz or needs better ram or what.

Thanks
Frank

(sorry for the long winded post)
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Old October 3, 2008, 12:06 AM
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I would guess that it would have something to do with it being an HP computer/mobo. I'm actually surprised that your even able to OC anything on it.

my suggestion is to return the computer to stock speeds, recheck that your speeds are back to what you saw earlier, then OC the computer "just a touch" to see if it immidiatly drops the performace or if it changes, if it doesnt change right away, slowly oc it up untill you see if it goes up or down, i'm assuming that you cant control weather or not the ram gets OCed? if you can, only oc the cpu untill you know if its causing performance loss/gain, then the ram to check the same, then you'll know which of the two is causing the loss.
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Old October 3, 2008, 12:25 AM
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I think he said that he just used the program's benchmark function and did not use it to OC.

Looks like the issue is that when he stuck in a faster CPU with faster RAM(of what should be the correct speed) the performance went down overall.
I do not now much about P4 systems so I cannot really help much unfortunately.
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Old October 3, 2008, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzetsin View Post
I would guess that it would have something to do with it being an HP computer/mobo. I'm actually surprised that your even able to OC anything on it.

my suggestion is to return the computer to stock speeds, recheck that your speeds are back to what you saw earlier, then OC the computer "just a touch" to see if it immidiatly drops the performace or if it changes, if it doesnt change right away, slowly oc it up untill you see if it goes up or down, i'm assuming that you cant control weather or not the ram gets OCed? if you can, only oc the cpu untill you know if its causing performance loss/gain, then the ram to check the same, then you'll know which of the two is causing the loss.
i am not OCing the system, i was only using a OCing program to use its benchmark. i was simply putting a faster CPU with a faster FSB with correct DDR3200 and it being slower then the stock 2.8ghz CPU and DDR2700 ram.

all i have to do to return it to stock specs is reinstall the stock CPU. which is what i did.

the stock CPU is a P4 2.8ghz non HT 533mhz FSB northwood, i tried to replace it with a P4 3.2ghz HT 800mhz FSB northwood (which the system is compatible of using).

what i am trying to figure out is how a faster CPU is showing like a 50% drop in performance when compared to the stock CPU.

the P4 2.8ghz non HT 533mhz FSB northwood with either the stock DDR2700 or the new DDR 3200 gets a score of 11.000 in 3dmark 03

in sandra the memory bandwidth is 3.5gb/s with either the stock DDR2700 or DDR3200 and latency of 140ms - 175ms, and using the memory tweaker programs benchmark i found the L1 caches bandwidth is 10gb/s - 14gb/s

the P4 3.2ghz HT 800mhz FSB northwood with the DDR3200 gets a score of only 7,000 in 3d mark 03

in Sandra the memory bandwidth is 1.5gb/s or 2gb/s (if i mess with the ram timings), wit a Ram Latency of 450 - 500ms and using the memory tweaker benchmark the L1 caches bandwidth is only 4 - 5gb/s

i am just wondering why if the mobo supports 800mhz FSB and DDR3200 in dual channel mode

Last edited by madmax_2069; October 3, 2008 at 01:00 AM.
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Old October 3, 2008, 12:48 AM
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I have a feeling that it's the 865's Memory Acceleration Mode (MAM)...also known on the i875P mobo's as Performance Acceleration Technology(PAT). It goes by the name of "Game Accelerator" on some other boards, and these are accessed in the BIOS under "Advanced Chipset Features". My P4C800E-Deluxe has this, and a Turbo mode as well. I'm skeptical if your Dell will have all the options though. It may be turning these off to deal with the 800FSB CPU and/or the PC3200 RAM. GL
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Old October 3, 2008, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Tanker View Post
I have a feeling that it's the 865's Memory Acceleration Mode (MAM)...also known on the i875P mobo's as Performance Acceleration Technology(PAT). It goes by the name of "Game Accelerator" on some other boards, and these are accessed in the BIOS under "Advanced Chipset Features". My P4C800E-Deluxe has this, and a Turbo mode as well. I'm skeptical if your Dell will have all the options though. It may be turning these off to deal with the 800FSB CPU and/or the PC3200 RAM. GL
its a HP but the same none the less. i looked in the bios and there is none.

the one memory tweaker program i have (not the one i used the benchmark on) has the setting to enable these but i dont know if it really does enable them or not.

i remember seeing on one of the D530s online manuals that there is a way to get to some hidden bios features, i know on some you hit control + F1, i cant remember on what PDF document i seen that in or what keys to press. i know the normal way to enter bios is F10.

the memory tweaker program dont do anything with the bios i dont think. everything gets reset once you reset the system.

is there any way to access the bios setting within XP.

i know that with riva tuner i can turn on and off a few video card related bios settings. like AGP Fastwrites (which is disabled) and sideband.

-----------------------------EDIT------------------------------------
the memory tools i am using are
memset (has more settings)
systool (was the one i used the benchmark in)

the performance mode in memset shows as being a reserved value. i am not sure if its that way on all computers or not.

now i am not sure if i can get this issue resolved by the looks of things. looks like i should have stayed at the 533mhz FSB speed.

i hope to find some sort of way to get mam enabled (or performance mode).

cause performance is really suffering. i wonder if it requires a specific type of memory before it can be enabled by bios and the ram i have isnt enough to be enabled. the ram timings are a little slow 3. 3-3-8 2-11-0-0 from what sandra shows, and also shows a warning of low bandwidth efficiency (advanced) and to check memory timings and settings the memory bandwidth efficiency is only 26.31% (which is real low).

i am going to stick the stock CPU back in it for now untill i can find a way to solve the issue (if there is).

Last edited by madmax_2069; October 3, 2008 at 03:21 AM.
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Old October 3, 2008, 06:49 AM
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Is the board using the higher FSB on the newer processor? Some boards require a jumper to be set on the board, and the newer processor's lower multiplier would make it slower at 533 base clock. Have you tried using CPU-Z just to verify those numbers?

That wouldn't explain the poor memory bandwidth, admittedly.
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Old October 3, 2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MpG View Post
Is the board using the higher FSB on the newer processor? Some boards require a jumper to be set on the board, and the newer processor's lower multiplier would make it slower at 533 base clock. Have you tried using CPU-Z just to verify those numbers?

That wouldn't explain the poor memory bandwidth, admittedly.
yea i have confirmed by looking in bios, using CPU Z, the 2 memory tweakers and sandra that the system is using the 800mhz FSB of the CPU and shows the ram at 200mhz (DDR400, or DDR3200 what ever you like to call it) in dual channel mode, and shows the memory CPU ratio being 1-1.

i did a little testing, with the stock CPU in using memtest i can see what the ram is set to and see what other options are set. performance mode is enabled with the stock CPU installed using either the stock DDR2700 or the DDR3200, with the new 800mhz FSB cpu the performance mode is disabled. i tried enabling and disabling it with either CPU but it made no change in performance what s ever. so that tells me that it cant be set using a software solution to this, that is can only be enabled by the bios if certain requirements are met.

maybe the ram has to have the right timing before it will allow performance mode to be enabled automatically when the FSB is running at 800mhz

whats weird is that a few of the D530 models came standard with a CPU in them that ran a 800mhz FSB with DDR3200 and had the same mobo as mine. i only wish i knew what the memory timing the ram in those systems used, and what the memory performance shows in sandra.

the microcode and bios are fully up to date, in these systems everything is done automatically by the bios and microcode.
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