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  #11 (permalink)  
Old October 1, 2013, 06:45 PM
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Here is the thing. Its an estimate. How is this estimate arrived at? Samsung waves their hand and say its so based on very short term testing. TLC is new tech. There is no basis to make such optimistic assumptions...and it is in their best interests to make it as optimistic as possible...as they are pushing TLC as a low cost alternative to Toshiba, IMFT and other competitors offerings.

Here is the problem I have with it. Its not performance I have any concerns over...its the NAND dieing at a greater than expected rate. Instead of two power states (SLC), or four(MLC)...TLC has six power states (as it stores THREE bits per cell). That is fragile NAND with greatly reduced P/E rating and abilities. Or as I put it...its NAND thats only redeeming value is it is CHEAP to make. Samsung have great engineers. They are not miracle workers. They are not clairvoyants. Come back with 50GB a day estimates when its 4 generations old and there is hard data to back such claims up...and then I will believe them (which even if you believe them is a mere .25DWPD...which is god awful compared to 1DWPD that many MLC drives have).

Until TLC is proven tech it is my personal opinion to let someone else be a guinea pig. Hell let someone else PAY for the privilege of being a guinea pig for Samsung. There are simply too many good MLC NAND drives out there to cut corners like this.

Edit:

Over the past 5 years I have called precisely two lines of SSDs garbage. The first time was the original OCZ Solid series. Linus spent pages and pages arguing with me over the fact that I was totally wrong in calling it garbage. He too had lots of data to back up the mfg'ers claims.

Time (as I knew it would) proved me right and proved Linus to be the hack that he is. I have a feeling that in a couple years we will be seeing a lot of these early gen TLC drives suddenly giving up the ghost (not all...but a good chunk that is above average). I hope I am actually wrong this time...but I doubt it. But it is possible. I am ultra conservative when it comes to what drives I use and recommend. If someone wants to save a few bucks and risk it...mazel tov. Only you can decide what a comfortable risk level is. OR as I always say: YMMV.
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Last edited by AkG; October 1, 2013 at 07:00 PM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old October 1, 2013, 07:14 PM
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Ahhh decisions decisions. I guess the good old american saying is true. You get what you pay for. One thing I do know is that if I go ahead and buy another sammy SSD I will be getting my first ever IPR after reading the Samsung SSD Support in Canada thread.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old October 2, 2013, 10:53 PM
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Agree with the others -- don't worry about TLC vs. MLC vs. SLC. The SSD I purchased last year and use heavily in my laptop has 4Tb of NAND writes. On a 120gb drive, that's less than 40 cycles. Samsung TLC drives, like the 840 (non-Pro) are rated at 1000 cycles, minimum. That's over 25 years!!!

I'll leave the other theory to the armchair physicists and engineers here, but, basically, concerns about Samsung's non-Pro drives are not well founded. Of course, if you can snag a Samsung Pro drive for cheap (like I did), then go for it. But otherwise, the standard stuff is just fine.
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Old October 3, 2013, 06:06 AM
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No actually that is an AVERAGE of 40 cycles. Was your drive filled up and emptied every time? No? Was it more than half full? Yes? More than 75% Then there is a good chance that blocks of cells have now used 10-15% of their lifespan....on "4TB of writes"....which even on the surface fails to take into account block erasures (aka TRIM) and write amplification (via ITGC which is aggressive with these controllers). In a perfect world you have only used 40 p/es. This aint a perfect world.

Ive been using, testing and reviewing Solid State since before it was really a 'thing'. I know their weaknesses and I know their strengths. I am not an armchair anything. I've been working in the industry since the '80s.

IMHO, TLC NAND is not ready for prime time. It took all the weaknesses of MLC NAND...and made them worse...without also amplifying the strengths. Its been created solely because they are cheap to mfg'er.
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Last edited by AkG; October 3, 2013 at 06:14 AM.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old October 3, 2013, 12:49 PM
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I put a Samsung 840 Evo 250 GB in my old X58 with a Velocity Solo x2 because I didn't have SATA III.
This is with Rapid Mode enabled
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old October 3, 2013, 07:01 PM
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^^^^ impossible numbers, the benchmark is just reading data out of the cache.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old October 3, 2013, 07:07 PM
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Well yeah, the the entire point of RAPID mode is to use DRAM as a cache.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old October 5, 2013, 06:37 AM
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I just got a samsung 840 Pro for a new build for my boss, incredibly fast.

I went for the reliability factor, my second choice was intel but chose samsung.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old October 6, 2013, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars View Post
Well yeah, the the entire point of RAPID mode is to use DRAM as a cache.
And that's supposed to be magically superior to the caching algorithms/facility provided in the OS? Doubtful.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old October 6, 2013, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitz View Post
And that's supposed to be magically superior to the caching algorithms/facility provided in the OS? Doubtful.
It's different, you're trading RAM capacity and CPU resources for disk write speed.

There are a number of third party-programs that do the same thing without needing a proprietary SSD.
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