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Old October 17, 2010, 10:00 AM
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Hey, I'm looking for information about Windows XP and SSD support.
I understand that XP does not support trim. What I'm looking at is using a low end SSD in a desktop computer for business applications (therefore running windows XP) where storage capacity is a non-issue past 32GB but the extra drive speed and access time would be nice. Not looking to spend more than $100 ideally but that barred, I'm looking at the vertex 2 again.

As stated, my concern is with windows XP and the drive slowing down due to lack of trim with all the have to delete data before writing. Any information, or stories with regards to XP and SSDs would be appreciated.

Also, what about a virtualbox XP on windows 7? How would trim work there?

Thanks in advance, guys.
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Old October 17, 2010, 10:08 AM
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I purchase a small 40g Intel for my laptop with windows 7 , I use the SSD toolbox utility of Intel to clean the drive once a week , I pay around $ 100 for it, not the fastest writing speed, but my OS boot like a bullet. I'm pretty sure the SSD toolbox work with XP.
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Old October 17, 2010, 10:13 AM
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AKG might jump-in and let you know.

The cure is what it's called ITGC (Idle Time Garbage Collection)...so it's what keeps SSDs relatively clean and effective outside of the TRIM-enabled OSes. you have to get a SSD with good ITGC routines...

ITGC NEEDs you to leave the computer powered and IDLING for ITGC to do the work...some leave the computer at the logon screen, some at the bios screen...I think it works also simply idling at the desktop..

Pretty sure his words would be:

-Grab a Vertex 1 or equivalent (Indilinx Barefoot-based SSD) for the internal Garbage collection...(ITGC)...read on ITGC...
-The Cheap Kingston SSDnow have good ITGC, but a little too agressive (maybe wearing faster)...and it doesn't perform to the Vertex 1 level.

The Newer SSDs like the Vertex 2s (Sandforce-based) have issues outside of the TRIM-capable OSes environment..

Quote:
I purchase a small 40g Intel for my laptop with windows 7
Botat, Win7 being TRIM-enabled...it's not comparable. But yes, that toolbox thing works...it's just NOT automatic...
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Old October 17, 2010, 10:18 AM
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For XP I do not recommend SandForce drives. You will be paying for power and performance you simply will not get. For XP and your price range look at the Kingston SSDNow V gen 2 series. Very good self maintenance routines so it will keep its self nice and fast. They make a pretty darn good introduction to the world of SSDs and you could get one for 115'ish for 64gb of space. Another decent option is the Intel V 40gb. Setup the SSD opitimizer to run once a week and it will keep itself nice and clean. The V is limited to about 40mb/s...but its 40mb/s for ALL sizes. 4k r/w speed is what is most important in an OS drive and a "quick and dirty" way to compare to SSDs is to look at their Crystal DiskMark 4k r/w test results. Its not a perfect way but it will get you into the ball park. ;)

Another option is to pick up an Indilinx based SSD used. Get them to show a Crystal DiskInfor screenshot showing cell usage and you will know how badly "beaten up" the drive is.

TRIM is a command that needs 3 parts to function and work:
1) AHCI mode in bios. No ahci == no trim regardless of the OS used
2) MS ahci or Intel RST drivers. These are basically the only two drivers that are proven to work 100%. Vmware drivers dont.
3) SSD that is trim aware. All are trim aware now.

Thats why TRIM on win 7 in a sandbox wont work. You need to be running win 7 and not XP to get it.
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Old October 17, 2010, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo matrix View Post
Also, what about a virtualbox XP on windows 7? How would trim work there?

I believe you are talking about the XP Mode with Win 7. If that is the case I would guess that trim works at least some what. It will work within Windows 7 and should just treat the virtual hdd as another file. Since win 7 is the "real" OS then I don't see trim not working. But that said since it would be doing read and writes within the virtual XP that may change things.

AkG, what do you think? Because to the trim enabled OS the only change could be the size of the vhd, then again if they have a static vhd size then it wouldn't see any real change. Your thoughts?
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Old October 17, 2010, 11:20 AM
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If hes running XP mode in windows 7 he should be fine. Even it doesnt pass on the trim command it wont really matter as most of the sys overhead will be under "real" windows 7 envrio as most of his time and tasks will most likely be under win 7 and not xp mode. The SFs do have some self maintenance routines its just that they easily get overwhelmed. If all they have to deal with is the bit XP mode creates it should in THEORY not matter and thats the worst case scenario. Best case Win 7 takes care of file maintenance and the xp mode's garbage gets covered by trim.

That assumes its not some custom box which only has one task: to run program X in xp mode. IF that's the case...he might be treading into an area that SF might not be perfect for. Then again if thats the case....speed isnt his first priority as XP mode is a dog. :)
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Old October 18, 2010, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipaine View Post
I believe you are talking about the XP Mode with Win 7.
No.
VirtualBox

Thanks guys for the input. I decided to go with a 500GB WD instead for price factors. I think SSDs still aren't ready/ worth the money.

As an aside, I've had a vertex 2 for a while, how do I tell if the MS AHCI driver is installed in 7?
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