Go Back   Hardware Canucks > HARDWARE > Storage

    
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 01:12 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,122

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerbee View Post
ya i see your up late... oh right wrong side of the country yes i got the same thing so i am not really worried about it too much like i said my a-data s592 says 32% left and still going like a beast not one bit of a slow down and everyone over at ocz ( where there's the most info on indilinx/barefoot ssd ) seems to only worried about max pe count because it shows flash/cells that are dead period from what my little brain can handle. ahhh i got horse's on the brain
ok, good to know
hehehe.. i think my brain maybe smaller ATM no horses for me to blame tho ,, i been up for days tho..
and im a night hawk.
trim on yup

Code:
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation.  All rights reserved.

C:\Users\HTPC>fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify
DisableDeleteNotify = 0
__________________
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=932179

"Be so good at what you do that you cant be ignored"

Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 01:14 AM
gingerbee's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
F@H
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Posts: 6,828

My System Specs

Default

yes but r we sure that amd southbridge will pass the cmd on to the ssd??? this is what i am not sure of
__________________
Fav quote "One should strive to achieve; not sit in bitter regret." Ronin Harris
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 01:15 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,122

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerbee View Post
how just because you can confirm that 7 is running it does not mean the drivers are passing the command on to the ssd. not sure how to confirm that we can all
this just confirms that 7 is running the trim driver does not mean that amd southbridge are passing to the ssd.. correct me if i am wrong please
Quote:
Originally Posted by gingerbee View Post
yes but r we sure that amd southbridge will pass the cmd on to the ssd??? this is what i am not sure of
hmm..ok.. well well.. i better look into this
__________________
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=932179

"Be so good at what you do that you cant be ignored"

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 01:43 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,122

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
For TRIM all you need is:

1) SSD that supports the TRIM command
2) Windows 7
3) AHCI mode enabled in BIOS
ok.. now its on im thinking, AHCI enabled ,but i think im using wrong port
should my ssd be on + Standard AHCI 1.0 Serial ATA Controller [ATA]
- ATA Channel 0 (0)???


edit: Now i found this
Quote:
Well I got a definitive answer, and it is no. TRIM Is not supported by AMD AHCI drivers yet. However, it shouldn't matter if you have the latest firmware for your device because in addition to TRIM there is also such thing as idle Garbage Collection. This means the drive will clean itself without the need for a command from Windows when it is on and applications aren't being used.
so im guessing your correct...AMD=No Trim

Code:
CrystalDiskInfo 3.7.0 (C) 2008-2010 hiyohiyo
                                Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OS : Windows 7 Ultimate Edition [6.1 Build 7600] (x64)
  Date : 2010/08/14 2:39:56

-- Controller Map ----------------------------------------------------------
 + Standard AHCI 1.0 Serial ATA Controller [ATA]
   - ATA Channel 0 (0)
   - ATA Channel 1 (1)
   - ATA Channel 2 (2)
   - ATA Channel 3 (3)
   - ATA Channel 4 (4)
   - ATA Channel 5 (5)
 + Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller [ATA]
   + ATA Channel 0 (0)
     - OCZ-VERTEX ATA Device
   - ATA Channel 1 (1)
 - ATA Channel 2 (2) [ATA]
 - ATA Channel 3 (3) [ATA]
 - ATA Channel 4 (4) [ATA]
 - ATA Channel 5 (5) [ATA]
 - ATA Channel 0 (0) [ATA]
 - ATA Channel 1 (1) [ATA]

-- Disk List ---------------------------------------------------------------
 (1) OCZ-VERTEX : 64.0 GB [0-0-0, pd1] - ix
__________________
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=932179

"Be so good at what you do that you cant be ignored"


Last edited by jay51; August 14, 2010 at 02:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 05:34 AM
sswilson's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 14,520

My System Specs

Default

Are you running the AMD AHCI drivers, or the default M$ ones? What OS are you running?

The AMD AHCI drivers do not pass the trim command through.
__________________
MSI Z87I Gaming AC / i5 4670K / 2X 4G Gskill 1866 DDR3 / XFX XTR 750 / EVGA GTX 680 SC+ 2GB / Intel DC S3700 200G / random 160G Sata HDD
Inwin 904 / Swiftech MCP655-b / Alphacool NexXxos XT45 120 Rad / 2X Scythe GT AP-15 / EK Supreme HF / Dell UltraSharp U2412M

Asrock AM1H-ITX / AM1 Athlon 5350 / 2X4G Gskill PC3-14900 / Intel 6235 Wi-Fi / 90W Targus Power Brick / 320G Seagate Momentus / Mini-Box M350 / 1X 22" Dell IPS / 1X 22" HP
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 07:11 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,122

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Are you running the AMD AHCI drivers, or the default M$ ones? What OS are you running?

The AMD AHCI drivers do not pass the trim command through.
i had me a nap
win7 ultimate 64bit , AHCI Driver is MS 6.1.7600.16385
am i hooked to the wrong port? i got to change thing up maybe..

EDIT:just realized one copy says build 7600 my other pc says Windows 7 Ultimate Edition (Build 7100)
same version on both..legal copies.
Edit2:lol..ok i think i benched my antec htpc with trial win7 build 7100 way back when..
__________________
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=932179

"Be so good at what you do that you cant be ignored"


Last edited by jay51; August 14, 2010 at 08:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 07:19 AM
Sagath's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
F@H
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Petawawa, ON
Posts: 2,493

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay51 View Post
i had me a nap
win7 ultimate 64bit , AHCI Driver is MS 6.1.7600.16385
am i hooked to the wrong port? i got to change thing up maybe..

EDIT:just realized one copy says build 7600 my other pc says Windows 7 Ultimate Edition (Build 7100)
same version on both..legal copies.
We were discussing this in another thread.

You need to have the default M$ ACHI OR IDE (depending what mode you're running your drives in) file in order for the trim to get passed along via drivers. We do know 100% that AMD Drivers dont pass the command along to the chipset/SSD. Even then, with the MS drivers no one is sure that the chip is passing the command to the SSD. The only way to really see is to run Crystal Disk to see you I/O megs/sec, then thrash the drive, and see if Crystal Disk marks are the same post thrashing.

AkG said he was going to try to do this, but hes a busy cat. I would just to 100% confirm for everyone, but I dont have access to an AMD system . Maybe someone else can take up the gauntlet?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpfan4ever View Post
AKG shot the hamsters, and then Perineum drove his Mustang with summer tires into the server.
My Disclaimer to any advice or comment I make;
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroSsFiRe2009 View Post
I'm a self certified whizbang repair technician with 20 years of professional bullshit so I don't know what I'm talking about
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 07:28 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,122

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagath View Post
We were discussing this in another thread.

You need to have the default M$ ACHI OR IDE (depending what mode you're running your drives in) file in order for the trim to get passed along via drivers. We do know 100% that AMD Drivers dont pass the command along to the chipset/SSD. Even then, with the MS drivers no one is sure that the chip is passing the command to the SSD. The only way to really see is to run Crystal Disk to see you I/O megs/sec, then thrash the drive, and see if Crystal Disk marks are the same post thrashing.

AkG said he was going to try to do this, but hes a busy cat. I would just to 100% confirm for everyone, but I dont have access to an AMD system . Maybe someone else can take up the gauntlet?
I'l get at it.. have 2 AMD systems and im curious now..
step 1- bench ssd
step 2 thrash ssd ,,how? can i refresh it after doing this, wiper killed my last vertex so they sent me this one.
step 3 bench again.

im noob to this ahci/ssd thingies . but what better way to learn..

btw. what thread, i will read it..

Edit improvement dunno why , i never seen 200 before..ever... i ran bench lastnight maxed@180

but now
--------------------------------------------------

Sequential Read : 201.044 MB/s
Sequential Write : 103.851 MB/s

Date : 2010/08/14 8:32:59
__________________
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=932179

"Be so good at what you do that you cant be ignored"


Last edited by jay51; August 14, 2010 at 07:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 08:14 AM
Sagath's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
F@H
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Petawawa, ON
Posts: 2,493

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay51 View Post
I'l get at it.. have 2 AMD systems and im curious now..
step 1- bench ssd
step 2 thrash ssd ,,how? can i refresh it after doing this, wiper killed my last vertex so they sent me this one.
step 3 bench again.
Awesome. Thanks for doing this for us! Lets see if we can get you set up. You might want to print these out so you have something to refer to while benchmarking...I hope AkG (or some of the other great Tech Guru's we have on here) can comment on my methodology here, and I'm not missing/screwing something up. Might be wise to wait for him to double-check before you start this project.

REMINDER: Doing the below will delete ALL had drive data.


0) Get something to make an image of your HDD (I recommend Acronis, you can get a free version from WD here). Image it and save it elsewhere (off the SSD is best). This is just so you wont lose any real data you have and can go back to pre-testing without worries for you apps etc...

1) Secure erase the driver: CMRR - Secure Erase

2) Install Win7 (you may want to make a 2nd image of a clean win7 install to use for Step X), benchmark the drive. Label this "Clean Win7"

3) Install AMD drivers, Fill the SSD as much as you can, then delete the junk you just filled (this filling and deleting is the 'thrashing')

4) Benchmark the SSD, label this benchmark as "Dirty AMD drivers" (if TRIM is not working, there should be a noticible performance drop.)

5) Uninstall AMD's chipset drivers (via Device Manager, make sure to select "Delete Driver" option) and Install MS's latest AHCI and IDE drivers. This should be done simply by rebooting the computer and letting autodetect work its magic.

6) Thrash the drive (This ensures a dirty state in case the AMD drivers are passing the TRIM command from step 3)

7) Benchmark the drive. Label this "Dirty MS Drivers"

8) Report!


If there is no difference between Clean Win7 and Dirty MS Drivers, then we can assume the TRIM command is getting blocked at the chipset, since we know MS drivers are passing the command. You can probably just do the Clean win7 and Dirty MS drivers steps and still show us the data to prove if the TRIM function gets passed along at all actually, without doing the Dirty AMD drivers step. We already know AMD doesnt work.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lpfan4ever View Post
AKG shot the hamsters, and then Perineum drove his Mustang with summer tires into the server.
My Disclaimer to any advice or comment I make;
Quote:
Originally Posted by CroSsFiRe2009 View Post
I'm a self certified whizbang repair technician with 20 years of professional bullshit so I don't know what I'm talking about
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old August 14, 2010, 08:20 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 1,122

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagath View Post
Awesome. Thanks for doing this for us! Lets see if we can get you set up. You might want to print these out so you have something to refer to while benchmarking...I hope AkG (or some of the other great Tech Guru's we have on here) can comment on my methodology here, and I'm not missing/screwing something up. Might be wise to wait for him to double-check before you start this project.

REMINDER: Doing the below will delete ALL had drive data.


0) Get something to make an image of your HDD (I recommend Acronis, you can get a free version from WD here). Image it and save it elsewhere (off the SSD is best). This is just so you wont lose any real data you have and can go back to pre-testing without worries for you apps etc...

1) Secure erase the driver: CMRR - Secure Erase

2) Install Win7 (you may want to make a 2nd image of a clean win7 install to use for Step X), benchmark the drive. Label this "Clean Win7"

3) Install AMD drivers, Fill the SSD as much as you can, then delete the junk you just filled (this filling and deleting is the 'thrashing')

4) Benchmark the SSD, label this benchmark as "Dirty AMD drivers" (if TRIM is not working, there should be a noticible performance drop.)

5) Uninstall AMD's chipset drivers (via Device Manager, make sure to select "Delete Driver" option) and Install MS's latest AHCI and IDE drivers. This should be done simply by rebooting the computer and letting autodetect work its magic.

6) Thrash the drive (This ensures a dirty state in case the AMD drivers are passing the TRIM command from step 3)

7) Benchmark the drive. Label this "Dirty MS Drivers"

8) Report!
ok this i can do. will most likely take me couple hrs to do....il get started this afternoon ..results later today
__________________
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=932179

"Be so good at what you do that you cant be ignored"

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ssd all-in-one tool gingerbee O/S's, Drivers & General Software 0 February 11, 2010 04:40 PM
G.SKILL Falcon 64GB Indilinx 2.5IN ? dadzilla Storage 5 December 29, 2009 07:17 PM
Status bwm HardwareCanucks F@H Team 5 December 2, 2009 06:00 PM
[WTB] 60Gb+ SSD indilinx or intel Akai Buy/Sell & Trade 0 November 27, 2009 03:07 PM