Go Back   Hardware Canucks > NEWS & REVIEWS > Rumor Mill

    
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old July 22, 2008, 06:19 AM
Chos3n's Avatar
Allstar
F@H
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rigaud,QC
Posts: 745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaRox View Post
I believe a few companies have tried the idea of liquid metal cooling systems, and they either made a few prototypes that were inefficient or too dangerous to use, or they gave up in the planning stages. Hopefully this company has discovered something that makes it safe, efficient and above all, inexpensive.
Liquid Lead Cooling, now that would be dangerous.

I really want to see some benchmark of that, but the tech behind that is impressive. I would put a price tag of at least 500$. That's only a cooler!
__________________
System | Ragnarok
Case Antec 900
PSU Corsair TX750W
CPU Intel Core i7 2700K 3.5GHZ
Motherboard ASUS P8Z68-V
Memory Corsair Vengeance Blue 8GB 2X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24
Video Card MSI GeForce GTX 560 Ti Twin Frozr II
Sound Card ASUS Xonar DX
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old July 29, 2008, 08:53 AM
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10
Post

Wonder how expensive replacing the liquid metal would be..
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old December 5, 2008, 04:17 PM
bojangles's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
F@H
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 2,683

My System Specs

Default

Here you go guys:

Danamics LM10 - Liquid metal put to the test | NordicHardware


There's the review, and it doesn't look so good...
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old December 8, 2008, 07:05 AM
Soultribunal's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 8,066

My System Specs

Default

They made a Poor Choice when it came to Liquid Metal on that computer.
From a Science standpoint, Gallium/Indium would have made a better medium for the heat transfer. NaK is highly reactive with Air/Water so they probably put some type of parafin Oil in there or something close to that to stabilize it and make it safe.

Gallium + 5% Tin = Liquid Metal @ 20 Degree C
Gallium + Indium + 3% Tin Alloy = Liquid Metal @ 17 Degrees

Those would make more sense as far as materials are concerened.
Secondly, they need a Full Loop for that system, and a different Pump.

Metal, while being a Better Conduit for Heat, also retains it very very well. When you do the heat transfer you need to get it away from the source to an open Rad much like traditional Liquid Cooling Loops.
Pumping it is actually easy, scientific Insturnments use the same PWM on a type of pump called a Peristaltic Pump instead of traditional Impeller driven for Materials such as these.

If I could find someone to make the Alloy here in Ontario, I could set up a loop with some effort.

My two cents with much research from myself and friends into this matter.

Regards,

ST
__________________




"We know not why he calls for us, only that when he does we must answer" - DMP 2009

"Dear Iceberg, I am sorry to hear about global warming. Karma is a bitch. Signed - Titanic"

I would rather believe and find god doesn't exist than to not believe and find that he does.

www.realhardwarereviews.com
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old December 8, 2008, 04:24 PM
muse108dc's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver North
Posts: 1,674
Default

sorry, have to dispute you there on one point.

Water takes more energy to heat up but stores the energy much more efficiently (doesnt let it go very quickly).
Metal takes very little energy to heat up but releases it very quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old December 8, 2008, 06:03 PM
Soultribunal's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 8,066

My System Specs

Default

Certain Metals yes, sorry I was having a brain cramp there.
They needed (in their system) to get the liquid metal away from the heat source to make it more effective of a cooler.
My appoligies, happens when I go off on a tangent.

ST
__________________




"We know not why he calls for us, only that when he does we must answer" - DMP 2009

"Dear Iceberg, I am sorry to hear about global warming. Karma is a bitch. Signed - Titanic"

I would rather believe and find god doesn't exist than to not believe and find that he does.

www.realhardwarereviews.com
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old December 9, 2008, 10:09 AM
BrainEater's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,513
Default

We discussed this previously , but I'll try not requote too much.

-----

The alloy you want ST , is called 'Galinstan' .You can buy it online if you so desire , or , you could buy it right in Ontario from just about any chemical supply shop.

------

I have not read up about this new cooler , but I find it difficult to believe they are using liquid NaK , even if it's got a 'buffer' liquid like parrafin.It's simply too dangerous.

Typically these liquid metal systems use MHD (magnetohydrodynamic) pumps.

While peristaltic pumps can deal with high shear liquids such as metals , The 'pump tube' can suffer from degradation and catastrophically fail......

-------

The key problem with liquid metal systems , stems from the fact that any 'liquid metal' is a really good solvent for nearly all solid metals.

This makes fabrication of things like blocks and rads difficult at best...

-----

Still just a curiousity.



edit : As far as the title of this thread goes , it is most definitly NOT the worlds first liquid metal cpu cooler.It's been done before.
__________________
Intel 3930k /rIVe/32 Gb vengeance LP/Nvidia TITAN/760/760/Intel 520's/WD raptors/etc...
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old December 9, 2008, 10:51 AM
Soultribunal's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 8,066

My System Specs

Default

Huh, never knew that metal was around for regular Purchase! Thanks for the info I'm gonna have to look that up.
The Perstaltic tubing we use on our ICPMS Systems here would be sufficient for sure, but for sake of completeness I will get its actual stats and life stats to see if its something worth fabricating. I have 3 two channel PWM Pumps as spares at work and I"D love to make something like this...the pumps are old model and I'm welcome to them at anytime.

NaK apparently is what they use, you as much in the dark as me on this one. That stuff can be really hazardous , really quickly if a puncture occurs.
It'll never arrive in North America because of the Hazmat rating more than likely.

Actually, you will find out if you want that alloying tin into the Gallium/Indium prevents this liquid metal Matrix from interferring with or getting involved with the matrix of most if not all metals (I'll see if I can find my list at work). Another work around would be a simple coating of ceramic inside the metal housings to prevent the actual interface of the two materials. But again, not really needed.

I'd like to do it and make it practical to be honest, and yeah its been done for many years in other industries. (Soviet Fast Breeder Reactors and Nuclear Subs use Sodium for a Heatexchanger).

Ha, anyone want to build one with me?

Regards,
ST
__________________




"We know not why he calls for us, only that when he does we must answer" - DMP 2009

"Dear Iceberg, I am sorry to hear about global warming. Karma is a bitch. Signed - Titanic"

I would rather believe and find god doesn't exist than to not believe and find that he does.

www.realhardwarereviews.com
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old December 9, 2008, 03:24 PM
BrainEater's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 2,513
Default

Yea Galinstan is pretty common.It's used as a mercury replacement for themometers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
Actually, you will find out if you want that alloying tin into the Gallium/Indium prevents this liquid metal Matrix from interferring with or getting involved with the matrix of most if not all metals (I'll see if I can find my list at work). Another work around would be a simple coating of ceramic inside the metal housings to prevent the actual interface of the two materials. But again, not really needed.

ST
I'm not sure about this.

AFAIK , the Tin is added to a Gallium/Indium alloy to prevent it from 'wetting' glass , it is one of the specific properties of Galinstan , that makes it suitable for thermometers..

Galinstan will dissolve copper/brass/aluminum/lead very easily , and once it does , the galinstan is ruined.....

While the concept of 'ceramic coating' certainly would address this , in practice , it's more difficult.The best results to date have been achieved with a gallium oxide coating , but even this is not 100% , and well , Ya kinda need 100% for this.

One of the ways to accomplish a safe setup would be to make blocks and rads from a 'refractory metal' such as tungsten or molybdinum......Galinstan can't touch these.......diamond would also be a good choice albeit expensive.

It can certainly be safely accomplished , I could draw you up one right now , but it's the cost......many thousands of dollars......

__________________
Intel 3930k /rIVe/32 Gb vengeance LP/Nvidia TITAN/760/760/Intel 520's/WD raptors/etc...
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old December 9, 2008, 03:42 PM
Soultribunal's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 8,066

My System Specs

Default

I really gotta learn to be more specific, and once I get some info From work I can be more specific on the subject.

The Setup I am talking about is the Gallium/Indium + Tin Setup. I wasn't talking about the one you had mentioned per se although I would love to see the stats on that material. Hey, tell ya what, I'll get the materials and Pump (gonna upload a pic of it soon) and we can build one! Canadian Style.

I know that Tin was originally added to prevent 'wetting' of glass. But putting the Indium in there with tin I believe prevents errosion.
Hey, its all theory and experimental. I am actually requistioning the stats and layout of the pumps we have here because they are 12V DC, but I need to know what the wattage/amperage is to know if I can, in theory attach one to the 4 pin on my old MB and get it to run.
I do think that a 'ceramic dip' would work well to treat these and cermaic is amazing at heat transfer (look at ceramic break pads).

I am going to ask our Dr. here at work and see what he knows (he is specialist of Inorganic substances) and get his input on this.

I've always dreamed and drawn one up, but I am no engineer. I need an engineer to help lol.

Good discussion though,
Cheers,

ST
__________________




"We know not why he calls for us, only that when he does we must answer" - DMP 2009

"Dear Iceberg, I am sorry to hear about global warming. Karma is a bitch. Signed - Titanic"

I would rather believe and find god doesn't exist than to not believe and find that he does.

www.realhardwarereviews.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes