Microsoft may keep XP alive after all

[Digitaldemon]

Originally Posted by DarKStar

I still remember the transition from Windows 98/Me to XP when it came out and was new and everyone said how much XP sucked major you know what and that game sucked, etc.......Now people love XP - Well VISTA will be the same, people will have no choice but to move on. Thank God I have my XP, and a backup of my disc just in case (shh !) but I am thankful to M$ at least that they wil keep on providing updates to XP.

Hmmm this info is kinda screwy..the switch was fast and quick.... less than year, xp caught on quick and is still the better os... no one i knew had any complaints of xp when it first launched... the drivers transition was quick and so was the gaming and security.. The only reason vista is selling is due to premades.. pushing it with out being honest and telling people there is a choice..

[Mars]

Originally Posted by Digitaldemon

Hmmm this info is kinda screwy..the switch was fast and quick.... less than year, xp caught on quick and is still the better os... no one i knew had any complaints of xp when it first launched... the drivers transition was quick and so was the gaming and security.. The only reason vista is selling is due to premades.. pushing it with out being honest and telling people there is a choice..

That's some selective memory there... if you really want, I can google loads of old web articles criticizing XP on launch.

The launches of XP and Vista were laughingly similar, although to be honest, in technical terms, Vista was much better than XP on launch.

MS actually extended the support date for Windows 98 (which they have not done with XP) because of slow migration to XP.

[DarKStar]

Originally Posted by Mars

That's some selective memory there... if you really want, I can google loads of old web articles criticizing XP on launch.

The launches of XP and Vista were laughingly similar, although to be honest, in technical terms, Vista was much better than XP on launch.

MS actually extended the support date for Windows 98 (which they have not done with XP) because of slow migration to XP.

I'm happy someone has remembered. XP was under attack by many websites and many people - maybe it worked for him and people he knew, but I do remember about the critics....the reason it is like that is because people are quick to JUMP on a new OS Anything that is NEW is subject to improvements, and a lot of people complaining were using BETAS :) That's why I waited a very long time to move to XP and people called me CRAZY. Now there are things that people won't forget with VISTA, the new driver foundation and the exclusivity of DX10, that it seems was very hard to take for some people, and most STILL don't understand the technical reasons behind DX10 not being ported to XP :)

[AkG]

IF there was real "technical reasons" for why DX10 can NOT be release into a SP for XP then why can you "find" DX10 hacks for XP? Lets cut out the bull. Vista was and and is all about DRM. MS needed to be seen as "getting tough on piracy" so that Hollywood would play nice with them and their download the movies to your HTPC schemes. In order to make this bitter pill palatable for the avg joe they decided to make DX10 Vista only. It backfired terribly because Vista was released way to early and doesn't offer much in the way of improvements besides a pretty GUI. This is Microsoft's M.O. as XP wasn't much more than a rebadge Win 2000 with a pretty GUI. THAT was the reason people hated on XP, as it ran slower and gave very little incentives beside eye candy to upgrade. XP has now matured into a very good OS and given time Vista probably will as well. BUT if I'm a big Corp why would I spend XXX of millions upgrading my OS and computers for nothing more than a pretty GUI? This is the crux of why Vista is tanking and why they are now rushing Win 7 out next year'ish. MS learned a few lessons from ME and they will (hopefully) learn a few from Vista. In the mean time I'm gonna kick back and enjoy XPs sunset years ;)

[Rommel]

Originally Posted by Mars

That's some selective memory there... if you really want, I can google loads of old web articles criticizing XP on launch.

The launches of XP and Vista were laughingly similar, although to be honest, in technical terms, Vista was much better than XP on launch.

MS actually extended the support date for Windows 98 (which they have not done with XP) because of slow migration to XP.

Absolutely!

I see all these people bashing Vista and bashing it on launch "facts" and "trends" and politely remind them of XP's launch.

I said this before Vista launched. Vista will launch no worse than Vista and in real terms it hasn't.

[DarKStar]

Originally Posted by AkG

IF there was real "technical reasons" for why DX10 can NOT be release into a SP for XP then why can you "find" DX10 hacks for XP? Lets cut out the bull.

LOL visit the GURU3d forums and talk about DX10 hacks for XP and you will see the kind of replies. The "HACKS" in question allow you to play DX10 games in XP and even on non DX10 cards - it's a HACK that tricks your games into thinking you are running DX10 - NO BULL here, you aren't ! you are not getting DX10 features - and I'm amazed to see how many people are mislead and fooled by those websites, especially those that use examples of games that aren't even DX10. Read up on that topic on GURU3D there are quite a few topics on DX10 on XP, and just the fact that you can run DX10 games on your DX9 card gives you a good idea. :D

Vista was and and is all about DRM. MS needed to be seen as "getting tough on piracy" so that Hollywood would play nice with them and their download the movies to your HTPC schemes. In order to make this bitter pill palatable for the avg joe

Is that so ? Then how come UNTIL this day people have defeated VISTA's so called anti-piracy measures ? How come people are copying and watching their BluRay movies without problems - There are software out there, despite all the anti-piracy measures there is a fix within 24 hours. And people who complain about DRM and antipiracy are usually those who do not have a legit copy of their movies or OS - OR people who DO have legit copies but feel they have a right to fair use - well - that's what software like AnyDVD HD among others are for. :)

they decided to make DX10 Vista only. It backfired terribly because Vista was

Read up on how VISTA's driver model works and the changes they made to the graphical interface, removal of the harwdare abstract layer, etc....YES they did change things, and because of those changes, things like DX10 cannot be implamented in XP, at least not without major changes - Did MS make a mistake with DX10 and the fact it is VISTA only, YES..... Could they have kept the same foundation as XP in order to adapt to both version, maybe, maybe not, let's leave that to the programmers. I'm not defending Microsoft here - That's why I'm still using XP for gaming and VISTA for DX10 gaming - to be honest I've run tons of applications on VISTA' that I use for work, rendering, encoding, editing, and all runs fine, it's just that VISTA is resource hungry - and IMO VISTA runs best on systems with a lot of RAM and a good CPU, which I have.

[AkG]

Yawn....you really want to say that DRM should be ignored because its "easy" to circumvent? Its thinking like that which results in lawsuits and if Hollywood has there way: JAIL time.

As for the programs you mentioned last time I checked AnyDVD cost money and the only reason they haven't been shutdown like the rest is because they are located in Antigua. Besides I never said MS DRM was good, the fact that its there and watching what I do with MY machines is BS. When did we become sheep people who allow others to decide what we should and shouldn't do with our own computer?

Please don't bring up that tired strawman argument that if you don't have anything to hide you shouldn't care who snoops on your system...barf.

Lets face it Vista's main claim to fame was going to be WINFS...too bad they removed it. BUT they didn't rewrite a lot of the underlying tech which relied on WINFS to be seamless. Since its not there you get a lot of redudant background BS grinding on and thats the main reason you need a beefy system to run it, and that goes back to my orginal argument on why its tanking in the business world...the place it really matters.

As for "read up on the driver model works"...that's a good one! I'm a MCSE and have been since NT3.5 I think I know a thing or two about how MS NT architecture works

[sswilson]

Originally Posted by DarKStar

LOL visit the GURU3d forums and talk about DX10 hacks for XP and you will see the kind of replies. The "HACKS" in question allow you to play DX10 games in XP and even on non DX10 cards - it's a HACK that tricks your games into thinking you are running DX10 - NO BULL here, you aren't ! you are not getting DX10 features - and I'm amazed to see how many people are mislead and fooled by those websites, especially those that use examples of games that aren't even DX10. Read up on that topic on GURU3D there are quite a few topics on DX10 on XP, and just the fact that you can run DX10 games on your DX9 card gives you a good idea. :D



Is that so ? Then how come UNTIL this day people have defeated VISTA's so called anti-piracy measures ? How come people are copying and watching their BluRay movies without problems - There are software out there, despite all the anti-piracy measures there is a fix within 24 hours. And people who complain about DRM and antipiracy are usually those who do not have a legit copy of their movies or OS - OR people who DO have legit copies but feel they have a right to fair use - well - that's what software like AnyDVD HD among others are for. :)



Read up on how VISTA's driver model works and the changes they made to the graphical interface, removal of the harwdare abstract layer, etc....YES they did change things, and because of those changes, things like DX10 cannot be implamented in XP, at least not without major changes - Did MS make a mistake with DX10 and the fact it is VISTA only, YES..... Could they have kept the same foundation as XP in order to adapt to both version, maybe, maybe not, let's leave that to the programmers. I'm not defending Microsoft here - That's why I'm still using XP for gaming and VISTA for DX10 gaming - to be honest I've run tons of applications on VISTA' that I use for work, rendering, encoding, editing, and all runs fine, it's just that VISTA is resource hungry - and IMO VISTA runs best on systems with a lot of RAM and a good CPU, which I have.

My issue with Vista's DRM is with the kernal level permissions it gives to producers allowing them to turn off your hardware (or functions of your hardware). To date, there haven't been (to my knowledge) any attempts by content producers to actually use these DRM features for fear of a backlash, but they still exist, and sooner or later one of them is going to make use of them.

As far as Fair Use goes....

I can't speak for anybody else, but I pay for my streaming music, and couldn't be bothered downloading movies, so for me, it is all about my fair use rights in Canada being trampled on.

If Copyright law included an enforcable right for content purchasers to be able to download a legal backup from the producers for as long as the producers' copyright is valid (this would have to include some form of insurance against the producer going bankrupt) I'd gladly give up my right to make backup copys.

[Digitaldemon]

i forgot to the sarcasm code on... lol.. the same whining happened with 98.. 95 etc... etc.


One thing people fail to mention is that with each launch it is going to contain a lot of hype expectation, and bs.

MS expects the public to be good little sheep and follow nicely, this wont happen ever.. I like Monte Carlo's Black Cloth and hard Rock and blues... and winxp... but the next person could be c&w .. trucks and 98se...

It is a matter of personal preference. I have a second test machine with Vista Ultimate, which has a Intel Core 2 Duo 2.66GHZ , 2 gigs of ram ddr2 and a 300gbs sata hd... with a 8800gt and sb x-fi.... and it has been and uphill fight since i first started using it.. driver isssues.. problems with licensing , when i changed hardware.. music sounding like hell due to sb and ms not working togther to give quaslity drivers.. video stutter... slow downs at the oddest times.. snail pace.. crashes with games... to even losing the video signal,,,, making me go wtf now... (error in pic)

[prtynkd]

i too have heard most of these complaints before (even from myself). with win95, can't get my dos games to work, can't get my legacy software to work, the drivers suck.... with xp, they were almost exactly the same. by then the bloat issue really started to surface. i won't touch the 64bit issues. as for the drm issue, i am sure most of us have stepped on the wrong side of the fence at least once. i like playing my games without hunting down the right disc. and yes, i do have the odd mp3 on my drive. vista is what it is, and we can either use it or not. sure m$ is losing a few billion on this venture, and maybe they will hear all the complaints and do something about it. i run 98, xp and vista and am glad to. they are all good in their own way. i prefer a secure machine, and vista gives me that. if i want to run legacy software/games, i fire up one of my old machines. now i am ranting...