Go Back   Hardware Canucks > NEWS & REVIEWS > Rumor Mill

    
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41 (permalink)  
Old January 26, 2012, 01:29 PM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,382

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by belgolas View Post
While this is disappointing you have to remember that consoles can get low level access to the hardware. So while they are running a low end GPU I suspect it will perform more like a high end GPU of its generation. So it isn't as bad as it sounds.

You have to remember that the 360/PS3 are roughly a 7800 GTX. If you had a 7800 GTX for PC there is no way for could get PS3/360 graphics even though you would be running the same hardware.

Now when it comes out just like every time in history a top of the line PC will beat it but a console will be equivalent to a medium end PC.
Well they run the games at low resolution which really helps, I think a 7800GTX could run MW3 at 1024x600 (the resolution on Xbox and PS3 AKA 30% less pixels than 1920x1080) on minumum settings.

Drop a 7800 GTX in your system, turn on MW3 put on all minimum settings, turn on vsync, set resolution to 1024x600. I would be interested to see if it ran at 60 FPS.

I have a hard time believing anything with a 6670 in it will be around a mid-end PC in a year and a half, hell... I wouldn't call it a mid-end PC now even if games were optimized for it.

Last edited by JJThomp; January 26, 2012 at 01:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old January 26, 2012, 02:17 PM
MVP
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 447
Default

There are a lot of erroneous comparisons between the 360/PS3/PC here imo. But none of that really matters. And it's pretty difficult to speculate without any official details or dev opinions/breakdowns.

The next generation of consoles will have to be right-sized in different ways for a variety of reasons:

- poor economy: consoles must be inexpensive, have a strong price/performance ratio; console manufacturers will be looking at highly integrated solutions, putting tight thermal limits on performance.

- development costs: each upgrade in speed and fidelity increases dev costs at least proportionately; hardware/infrastructure upgrades; larger dev teams need more space and are less efficient; reorg/training/tool development; etc...

- digital delivery costs/times: most games will need to fit into a relatively small footprint, limiting fidelity

- consumer interest: the success of the seemingly under-powered wii will be a factor in limiting the performance of next generation consoles.

- both Sony and Microsoft have need to be more frugal this round.

I have a feeling that publishers have had a big say in defining next-gen console specs.
Reply With Quote
  #43 (permalink)  
Old January 26, 2012, 03:01 PM
Bao Bao is offline
Top Prospect
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 224
Default

It's too bad that PC gaming is so tied in with console games. It would be nice that there would be more DICE's than Bobby Kotick's out there.

But looking at the PC sales ratio for BF3 vs consoles... it's not terribly impressive. Then again 1 million + units is not a bad number either. it just looks small compared to 9 million on the consoles or whatever it is.

Anyway, despite console games harming the development and restricting the potential of PC games... there's nothing we can do to change that. So with regard to upcoming consoles, I tend to not care about the PC gamer point of view, and focus on the apparent weaknesses of the current consoles. The only apparent technical issue that I have with the PS3 and Xbox 360 is the prevalence of sub HD games, and the few games that are at least 1280x720 (the absolutely stunning Uncharted series), well that's still 30FPS or less and that's another issue for me.

If these rumours are true, then 1920x1080 @60fps is unlikely for the upcoming generation. However, if the worst case scenario resolution is a native 1440x810 (or something in this ballpark) at 60fps then I am ok with that. It will be a clear upgrade over the 1024x600 resolution that COD is running at.

There are too many games that are sub HD:

List of Rendering Resolutions + basics on hardware scaling, MSAA, framebuffers - Beyond3D Forum

So as long as we're well and above that with 60fps in the "next gen" then I'll be ok with that. Also, at least 8gb of ram somehow please.
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old January 26, 2012, 11:56 PM
Top Prospect
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 197

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by belgolas View Post
While this is disappointing you have to remember that consoles can get low level access to the hardware. So while they are running a low end GPU I suspect it will perform more like a high end GPU of its generation. So it isn't as bad as it sounds.

You have to remember that the 360/PS3 are roughly a 7800 GTX. If you had a 7800 GTX for PC there is no way for could get PS3/360 graphics even though you would be running the same hardware.

Now when it comes out just like every time in history a top of the line PC will beat it but a console will be equivalent to a medium end PC.
This whole low access to the hardware argument is pretty weak. Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing for a second that LLA is more resource efficient and agree it DEFINITELY increases performance compared to PC counterparts.

Realistically though LLA isn't a sufficient advantage to provide the extra performance of the magnitude the 720 is going to need with this purported chip. An 8800GT can basically do anything that a 360 can IF you keep the resolutions identical and tweak the graphics so that they are at identical settings. So basically if the 360 is at 7800 potential and the 8800 was sufficient, a 6950 is more than enough to match the '720's GPU power.

That said you guys are getting all depressed without consideration of three factors:
1) This makes no mention of the CPU, with LLA devs can interact the CPU with GPU much more efficiently than on PC's. Apparently the Wii is using the Watson supercomputer CPU that IBM has tweaked, so MS has to pull out something even more powerful that might even overshadow Ivy's perf bringing the 720 to equivalence to high spec PC's.
2) This is all just rumoured
3) Either way this heralds the era of DX11 and with EPIC working on UE4 I have confidence in the graphical fidelity of the next gen resembling AT LEAST C2 DX11 or BF3 for all releases.

This is UE3 tweaked out btw and yet EPIC said it didn't have enough graphical fidelity for the next gen XBOX
Samaritan Video Game, Debut Trailer HD | Video Clip | Game Trailers & Videos | GameTrailers.com
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old January 27, 2012, 01:12 AM
Silent_Avenger's Avatar
MVP
F@H
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 472

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lKashl View Post
1) This makes no mention of the CPU, with LLA devs can interact the CPU with GPU much more efficiently than on PC's. Apparently the Wii is using the Watson supercomputer CPU that IBM has tweaked, so MS has to pull out something even more powerful that might even overshadow Ivy's perf bringing the 720 to equivalence to high spec PC's.
Well MS could always drop one of these bad boys into the xbox.

Knights Corner: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/int...sor,14002.html



But really shouldn't it be the game that counts rather than the console? I mean ofc the console plays a big part in it and I would have much rather liked a 6970 gpu in there. But if there are no good games to play on it what difference will the graphics make?
__________________
Main System //// Dedicated Folding PC 1 //// Dedicated Folding PC 2 //// Laptop

Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/DarkDivinityPC

I fold for a cure. Team 213366 and 54196.
Reply With Quote
  #46 (permalink)  
Old January 27, 2012, 07:47 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,382

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent_Avenger View Post
Well MS could always drop one of these bad boys into the xbox.

Knights Corner: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/int...sor,14002.html



But really shouldn't it be the game that counts rather than the console? I mean ofc the console plays a big part in it and I would have much rather liked a 6970 gpu in there. But if there are no good games to play on it what difference will the graphics make?
It's more about the effects on PC gaming that we are worried about. If they keep making games for Console that are meant to run on a 6670 the graphics will probably be a little underwhelming for people running dual 7970's.
Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)  
Old January 27, 2012, 04:56 PM
Top Prospect
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 197

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent_Avenger View Post
Well MS could always drop one of these bad boys into the xbox.

Knights Corner: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/int...sor,14002.html



But really shouldn't it be the game that counts rather than the console? I mean ofc the console plays a big part in it and I would have much rather liked a 6970 gpu in there. But if there are no good games to play on it what difference will the graphics make?
No love for 100 cores?

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Til...PUs,14543.html
Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)  
Old January 28, 2012, 07:52 AM
Top Prospect
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 52
Default

Microsoft is not throwing a 6670 in the next Xbox. They have never slapped a consumer grade card in a console. They always create custom cards for their systems. It may be near a 6670 is processing power but they haven't even shipped alpha devkits to developers yet.
Reply With Quote
  #49 (permalink)  
Old January 28, 2012, 11:17 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,382

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by croy_00 View Post
Microsoft is not throwing a 6670 in the next Xbox. They have never slapped a consumer grade card in a console. They always create custom cards for their systems. It may be near a 6670 is processing power but they haven't even shipped alpha devkits to developers yet.
They say the chipset is based on the 6670 and the system is going to have an APU, either way it isn't going to be as powerful as I would like it to be.
Reply With Quote
  #50 (permalink)  
Old January 28, 2012, 11:48 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,861

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by croy_00 View Post
Microsoft is not throwing a 6670 in the next Xbox. They have never slapped a consumer grade card in a console. They always create custom cards for their systems. It may be near a 6670 is processing power but they haven't even shipped alpha devkits to developers yet.
understood that it won't be a 6670 exactly, but if it is based on that design its not going to be earth-shattering performance. Its still a step in the right direction over the xbox360, but this console won't see the light of day for another year-ish and a 6670 isn't exactly pushing the graphics envelope right now (let alone when the system is released).
__________________
Desktop: Antec Three Hundred, Z77-D3H, 3570K undervolt @4.1ghz with Zalman Optima Cooler, Corsair Vengeance 2x4gb@1866mhz, MSI Cyclone GTX 460, Seasonic S12II 500W, WD Black 1TB, Intel 530 120GB
Away from home light Gamer: Acer Aspire 15.6", A8-3500m undervolt and OC to 2Ghz, 2x4gb Corsair Vengeance, Crucial M500 240gb
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Intel HD Graphics with Graphics Card MoUnit CPU's and Motherboards 4 August 6, 2011 03:54 PM
AMD Extends Graphics Performance Lead, Launches World's Fastest Graphics Card? Again! FiXT Press Releases & Tech News 2 March 8, 2011 02:32 PM
PS3 vs XBox 360 sswilson Gaming 72 May 24, 2009 03:37 PM
This is how you fix your Xbox 360 Infiniti Off Topic 7 February 22, 2009 02:26 PM
WTB: Xbox 360 GregH Buy/Sell & Trade 10 November 19, 2008 04:00 PM