Go Back   Hardware Canucks > NEWS & REVIEWS > Rumor Mill

    
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old January 23, 2012, 01:05 PM
Top Prospect
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 164
Default

I didn't mean that Isreal not going away was a problem, just that most of the region can't accept that.

I'm not sure about the legitimacy of pursuing two millennia old land claims is although, that thinking is part of what gave us centuries of brutal warfare in Europe.

I agree that the palastinians make it hard for any progress to be made but I think primarily it's the fault of Hamas, etc that at this point simply cannot accept peace because the continued conflict is their reason for being and their leaders won't relinquish the power that the groups have. Hamas has as much of a stake in keeping the people poor and angry as Isreal's enemies because that's where their power comes from. That's also why they use all the wealth in their territories to continue the conflict instead of helping their people.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old January 23, 2012, 01:19 PM
SKYMTL's Avatar
HardwareCanuck Review Editor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,826
Default

It changes when you ask yourself this question: What would the Palestinians have to give up for peace?

Their democratically elected government?

The territory that settlers continue to take without justification?

What we are seeing is a gradual assimilation of Palestinian land, crops, and livestock and it won't stop until Israel can say: we can't give any back now because our settlers are EVERYWHERE.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old January 23, 2012, 03:27 PM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,385

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by belgolas View Post
Yes most of my anger was at JJThomp as it sounded like he would like it if the Israeli Jews be wiped out. That incredibly angered me.

By no mean am I saying Israel is always in the right. Sure they didn't take their country back in the right way and don't always have the best intentions for other groups but I think if most of you knew what the U.S.A. has done in the past you would be very angry at them. Seems like you guys are trying to say that Israel is the worst country on earth. That is not true. You guys also claim that the Palestinians are being genocide. That is also not true.

I do very well know about genocides going on in Africa even now in places like the Congo and there are rumors of them starting in other nations usually Muslims vs. Christians.

Did you know that there are talks of some European nations splitting like Belgium. If you go back in history there are so many nations that either don't exist anymore or their borders are much different.

Oh and China's army isn't getting out dated, hell in many aspects they have newer tech than us. China is one of the few countries actually making money right now. They make more than they spend and loan out even more. If it wasn't for China loaning out money the current recession would be even worse (although if it wasn't for China the manufacturing sector would be in better shape but then our raw materials would be worth less).



P.S what do you think is going to happen when a U.S president stops funding the israeli army? The country is going to collapse and the Palestinians will go to war with the Israeli's and take back their homeland and mass genocide of jews will follow. And guess what, everyone will look away just like WWII, because no one gives a damn about Israeli Jews, they would have let Hitler kill all the jews but he tried to take over the entire world so people fought to stop him. The whole world was going to let the jews die.

Tell me that isn't hatred?

Also about one of your earlier comments all the US "funding" to Israel is actually a loan and Isreal has to pay it back.




Oh I have plenty of criticism for Israel but they are not the only country that needs criticism.

Israel cannot start a war against Iran as it doesn't have any long range bombers. Even if the U.S. would start a war I doubt Russia or China would get involved as they have their own domestic problems. Russia may go into violent protests because the people want democracy. China has a lot of problems of its own.

Besides the U.S. military is something to be feared while China and Russia's armies are getting pretty outdated. Hell no other nation has a super aircraft carrier and the US has 11 and they are replacing 10 of them with brand new ones.



Israel not going away is not a problem as it is their right to exist. It was their land 2011 years ago but the Romans kicked them out. Israel is also one of the first people groups to settle that area. Israel also built Jerusalem. All of this is very well documented.

You are right in saying that the neighboring nations don't want the Palestinians as they for the most part didn't accept the Palestinian refuges. Egypt nor Jordon want "their" land back.





Now I agree that Palestinians should be able to have their own nation but asking right now they are not making things easy when they shoot rockets and kill Israelis.
Well it is genocide, Israel is solely responsible for those deaths.

Tomorrow I am going to take your job, your house, everything you own and you get nothing in return. You need to walk to your new country 500 kilometers away carrying all your stuff (either that or you spend what little money you have left on getting it transported). You have no job, no job prospects and you live on sandy infertile land. How do you survive? just because they aren't putting them in gas chambers or hacking them to pieces with machetes doesn't mean it isn't genocide.

As for where you accuse me of hatred, again I have nothing against jews and I have not said anything that isn't a fact. Did you know in WWII a boat full of jews showed up in Canada after being rejected in New York.
guess what we did, we sent them off with no food and offered them no asylum, every single person on that boat died. I don't hate anyone I'm just basing my predictions off of the past, the only way someone will help Israel in that situation is if they have other interests involved. Our governments don't help countries if there isn't anything in it for us. The most that would happen is the UN would send 1000 unarmed peacemakers to soak up some ammo.

Israel recieved 3 billion in military aid from the USA in 2008 in the form of grants (not loans). Again I don't hate jews or Israeli's I hate the idea of Israel they have no right to that land and if you believe they do you are a hypocrite because then we have no right to the land we walk on. We were not the first people in North America but we came and took everything the natives had and that was a lot more recent than 2000 years ago. When we first took over they fought back too, they didn't want to be a part of us, they didn't want to move west from their homes but we forced them and now look at all the social issues we created. The only difference between aboriginals and palestinians is that no one gave them rocket launchers and taught them how to make bombs before they got used to it.

Edit: Furthermore we took the land from the animals first so by that thought no humans belong here.

Last edited by JJThomp; January 23, 2012 at 07:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old January 23, 2012, 10:49 PM
Top Prospect
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
It changes when you ask yourself this question: What would the Palestinians have to give up for peace?

Their democratically elected government?

The territory that settlers continue to take without justification?

What we are seeing is a gradual assimilation of Palestinian land, crops, and livestock and it won't stop until Israel can say: we can't give any back now because our settlers are EVERYWHERE.
Do you really believe that you can boil the whole thing down to that? You can simply reverse that and be no closer to the truth. There are Palastinians (and many others) that would be not be satisfied with anything less than Israel ceasing to exist.

Also, if you elect a government who's public policy is the complete destruction of another nation I don't think you should be surprised when said nation isn't hugs and kisses with your government. One might even say that you bear some of the responsibility for what your government does, a la Nazi Germany...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old January 23, 2012, 11:38 PM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,385

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rommelrommel View Post
Do you really believe that you can boil the whole thing down to that? You can simply reverse that and be no closer to the truth. There are Palastinians (and many others) that would be not be satisfied with anything less than Israel ceasing to exist.

Also, if you elect a government who's public policy is the complete destruction of another nation I don't think you should be surprised when said nation isn't hugs and kisses with your government. One might even say that you bear some of the responsibility for what your government does, a la Nazi Germany...
But this wouldn't have been a problem in the first place if it wasn't for western arrogance. Israel is a country created by the destruction of Palestine they are in a game of tit for tat and no one is prepared to give up until they what what is "theirs".

And if Palestinians need to bear responsibility for Hamas the people of Israel need to bear responsibility for starving half their people to death. As it is the only people who are being asked to take responsibility are the Palestinians and they have done the least wrong. It's all how you perceive events and how they are presented to you.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old January 24, 2012, 04:02 AM
Top Prospect
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 164
Default

Half the people in Gaza and the west bank starving to death? Where do you get this stuff? Only the palastinians being asked to take responsibility? Do you have any idea of where world opinion lies? That most of the planet won't recognise Isreal as a country? That the majority of the UN is hostile to Isreal solely due to religion? That the UN has levied about a bazillion resolutions agaisnt Isreal? (List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Yay for a bunch of tinpot dictators and puppet democracies to denounce isreal...

Shit, why can't we just agree to allow Isreal to have militarily defensible borders and to stop firing rockets at civilians?

Israel has a very precarious position, what do you expect them to do? Sign over a surrender and orderly leave for umm, nowhere?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old January 24, 2012, 04:54 AM
sswilson's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 14,780

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rommelrommel View Post
Half the people in Gaza and the west bank starving to death? Where do you get this stuff? Only the palastinians being asked to take responsibility? Do you have any idea of where world opinion lies? That most of the planet won't recognise Isreal as a country? That the majority of the UN is hostile to Isreal solely due to religion? That the UN has levied about a bazillion resolutions agaisnt Isreal? (List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Yay for a bunch of tinpot dictators and puppet democracies to denounce isreal...

Shit, why can't we just agree to allow Isreal to have militarily defensible borders and to stop firing rockets at civilians?

Israel has a very precarious position, what do you expect them to do? Sign over a surrender and orderly leave for umm, nowhere?
This was my position during the '70s and '80s. I felt it was perfectly reasonable for them to militarily occupy a "no-man's-land" buffer zone outside of their borders in order to protect their citizens from a real and present threat.

Once they started allowing settlers to move into that buffer zone, and even worse, started anexing land which wasn't included in the initial borders of Israel, that state (IMO) became just another rogue nation which doesn't respect international law.

I understand that they (by virtue of demographics) cannot accept the long held requirement of "right of return" to lands inside Israel "proper", but no solution can start until Israel removes it's citizens completely from land which does not in any way shape or form belong to it. (No land outside of the original borders is recognised internationally... even the USA doesn't officially recognise land other than that inside of the original borders)

For me, this has absolutely nothing to do with religion, I'd feel the same way about the actions of any state which was stealing land from it's neighbours.
__________________
MSI Z87I Gaming AC / i7 4770K / 2X 8G Gskill 1866 Sniper / XFX XTR 750 / EVGA GTX 680 SC+ 2GB / Intel DC S3700 200G / Seagate Barracuda 1TB
Inwin 904 / Swiftech MCP655-b / Alphacool NexXxos XT45 120 Rad / 2X Scythe GT AP-15 / EK Supreme HF / Dell UltraSharp U2412M

Asrock AM1H-ITX / AM1 Athlon 5350 / 2X4G Gskill PC3-14900 / Intel 6235 Wi-Fi / 90W Targus Power Brick / 250G Samsung 840 Series SSD / Mini-Box M350 / 1X 22" Dell IPS / 1X 22" HP
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old January 24, 2012, 06:24 AM
SKYMTL's Avatar
HardwareCanuck Review Editor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,826
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Once they started allowing settlers to move into that buffer zone, and even worse, started anexing land which wasn't included in the initial borders of Israel, that state (IMO) became just another rogue nation which doesn't respect international law.
Bingo. And yes, the vicious circle of rocket attacks, annexation, political quagmires, etc all start and end with this right here.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old January 24, 2012, 09:46 AM
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,385

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rommelrommel View Post
Half the people in Gaza and the west bank starving to death? Where do you get this stuff? Only the palastinians being asked to take responsibility? Do you have any idea of where world opinion lies? That most of the planet won't recognise Isreal as a country? That the majority of the UN is hostile to Isreal solely due to religion? That the UN has levied about a bazillion resolutions agaisnt Isreal? (List of United Nations resolutions concerning Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) Yay for a bunch of tinpot dictators and puppet democracies to denounce isreal...

Shit, why can't we just agree to allow Isreal to have militarily defensible borders and to stop firing rockets at civilians?

Israel has a very precarious position, what do you expect them to do? Sign over a surrender and orderly leave for umm, nowhere?
Okay half the people was a hyperbole, the UN's opinion doesn't mean anything I bet if you ask the general population about Israel and Palestine I bet 90% of them side with Israel because they only see terrorist attacks on the news.

We can't allow Israel to have militarily defensible boarders because they abuse them.

The last part is exactly what they should do, now that they are there it sucks for them, but really it's what Palestinians were expected to do. Guess what? Not all of them agreed and they lost their homes any ways.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old January 24, 2012, 03:02 PM
belgolas's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
F@H
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: St. Thomas, Ontario
Posts: 3,953

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJThomp View Post
We can't allow Israel to have militarily defensible boarders because they abuse them.
I am sorry but this made me laugh.

Don't you know what Israel's neighbors have done in the past? Virtually every Middle Eastern nation went to war against Israel (if you include expeditionary forces). They have tried several times to take Israel's land and they will try it again. The cowards even invaded on Yom Kippur the holiest day in Judaism. Roughly 1 million Arabs tried invading that sliver of land and somehow 400,000 Israeli soldiers pushed them back.

I think some of you should brush up on your history...
Arab

This is also a not so detailed timeline of Israel from biblical times to present.
Israel: A Time Line of Israel's History
__________________

Sponsor a child!
Fight poverty.

Qoute by Perineum
"ID10T. I just BETCHA he's got 9 toolbars on his web browser right now."
Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
cyberwar , israel

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Next Time you Hack the pentagon ( regester.Uk) ZZLEE Reviews & Articles from the Web 1 May 31, 2011 11:25 PM
PC cyber has MSI 470 and a few 480 ZZLEE Video Cards 0 April 20, 2010 07:16 PM
Intel Xeon 5600 Westmere (Regester.UK) ZZLEE Reviews & Articles from the Web 0 March 30, 2010 09:37 PM
cyber attacks.. omgwtf Off Topic 0 November 22, 2008 09:26 AM
Let the robot wars begin! Isreal's robo-snipers Babrbarossa Off Topic 5 June 6, 2007 05:51 AM