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  #21 (permalink)  
Old January 20, 2012, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by belgolas View Post
holy crap some of these comments are just pure hatred. Saying no one would care if Jews were to all die. **** you I care.

Israel is the best nation in the middle east for human rights. They allow all races/religions in their military and government. Sure you are going to see more Jews in power just like you are going to see more English people in power in England.
They have the most educated population in the world (more university degrees).
Israel produces more scientific papers per capita.
Israel has the highest living standards in the middle east. More than most European countries.
When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.
Relative to its population Israel is the most immigrant absorbing nation.
Israel is the second largest "silicon valley"
The cell phone was developed in Israel
The Pentium MMX chip was developed in Israel

This is just a very small list. Sure Israel's track record isn't perfect but don't say the US has committed war crimes many times in the past and present. No nation is perfect.


Just close this thread as people are clearly making this an anti Jew/Israel thread.
See what happens? Start talking facts, debating middle eastern politics without ANY hatred and we're suddenly all anti Semites.

Replies like this show exactly why the Western World will never be able to have an open dialog about Israel.

By the way, I truly did laugh out loud at your first point.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old January 21, 2012, 08:43 AM
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Belgolas, over-reaction much lately? I see nothing that could be even taken out of context as hatred here, merely critism. As usual, the no critism of Israel crowd is represented everywhere by someone.

Whether or not the Palestinians are good people, do they deserve to be starved to death? Deprived of basic human needs? I do not wonder for a second why they are so warlike towards the Israelis although that does not make it right either.

Anyhow, if Israel is allowed to attack Iran, we won't need to worry much about their future, or even our own for that matter, should the Russians and CHinese make good on their threats. I really cannoty believe WW3 is really going to be started by Israel.
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Old January 21, 2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by b1lk1 View Post
Belgolas, over-reaction much lately? I see nothing that could be even taken out of context as hatred here, merely critism. As usual, the no critism of Israel crowd is represented everywhere by someone.

Whether or not the Palestinians are good people, do they deserve to be starved to death? Deprived of basic human needs? I do not wonder for a second why they are so warlike towards the Israelis although that does not make it right either.

Anyhow, if Israel is allowed to attack Iran, we won't need to worry much about their future, or even our own for that matter, should the Russians and CHinese make good on their threats. I really cannoty believe WW3 is really going to be started by Israel.
and they said we dont need nukes any more pphhh
but seriously if some one farts over there were all insta-f***ked.....hard
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Old January 21, 2012, 11:16 AM
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The world really needs put religion aside from politics...

An interesting argument by a British MP who is Jewish:
UK Jewish MP : Israel was born out of Jewish Terrorism - YouTube
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old January 21, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Unfortunately, as you can see the British parliament is like ours: empty when all the good stuff goes on...
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old January 21, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by belgolas View Post
holy crap some of these comments are just pure hatred. Saying no one would care if Jews were to all die. **** you I care.

Israel is the best nation in the middle east for human rights. They allow all races/religions in their military and government. Sure you are going to see more Jews in power just like you are going to see more English people in power in England.
They have the most educated population in the world (more university degrees).
Israel produces more scientific papers per capita.
Israel has the highest living standards in the middle east. More than most European countries.
When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.
Relative to its population Israel is the most immigrant absorbing nation.
Israel is the second largest "silicon valley"
The cell phone was developed in Israel
The Pentium MMX chip was developed in Israel

This is just a very small list. Sure Israel's track record isn't perfect but don't say the US has committed war crimes many times in the past and present. No nation is perfect.


Just close this thread as people are clearly making this an anti Jew/Israel thread.
Okay I feel as if this is pretty much solely directed towards me so I will explain myself. I do not hate Jews and I am not an "anti-semetic" (Funny thing is, is that Muslims, Jews and Christians are all semites by definition of the word and the saying "anti-semetic" is actually just a poor understanding of the origin of these religions). The conditions under which Israel became a country are completely unfair to the original inhabitant who are now being starved to death by the Israeli government (yeah human rights my ass).

To put it in perspective what Israel did is what the USA tried to do in the war of 1812 (take over Canada) as part of their wild delusions of grandeur they coined "The Manifest Destiny". The claimed god gave them the land and they therefore had the only rights to it and they were going to take it by force. Really the only difference is that the British won the war thus preserving the British colony "Kanada".

The same thing happened to the Palestinians Jews claim that god gave them the holy land (which the location of which is unknown but they chose Palestine because it is close and no one gave a shit about the Palestinians). The difference is with large financial backing and the support of the USA Israelites succeeded and took the land for themselves.

Of course the Palestinians fought back because they were forcibly removed from their homes, their human rights and freedoms were being trampled all over and they were labelled "terrorists". Now that is a joke if I have ever heard one, I know personally if someone came into my house-that I had worked my entire life to build-and said, "you have to leave, oh and by the way we aren't going to give you anything". I would kill as many people as I had to to protect my family and my loved ones. Is attacking innocents the right way to go about it? Hell no, but really they have no choice and it has now developed into a way of life for many people.

Basically what happened was these people were told that they didn't have a right to exist because "our God says so" and predictably that didn't go over very well with them. The sad part is their religions are so similar, they all believe in the same intrinsic values, the same one god but they just can't get over the cultural differences. You can't tell me Israel is a country to look up to when it comes to human rights because they are the worst offenders (worse than "terrorists" if you ask me).

About people not caring if all the Jews died, I think you are seriously deluded. Humans have one purpose in this world and it is to preserve themselves for as long as possible. No one cared when they were exterminating Jews in WWII, No when cared in Rawanda when they were exterminating the Tutsi's, no one cared in Iraq when they were exterminating Kurds and no one cares now (if you need more examples let me know because I haven't even touched on current day African problems). We only help people when it serves our own interests, people starve to death everyday and no one does anything about it.

I know this might seem a little extreme and believe me I really am trying to tear down your blue skies because the sky is not blue. It is grey and no one gives a shit, if people gave a shit we would see things happening, we would all take a quality of life hit so others could scrape by, if you cared and I mean truly cared at all you would have spent your $2000-$3000 on helping people instead of a computer you can waste time on.

Which brings me to my next point, I'm no better I do not think I am superior to you or anyone else in anyway. I just don't believe that anything is right in any country in the world, and there are only 2 solutions to the problem, A. Everyone takes a large quality of life hit and we all live well below the current Candian "Poverty Line" standard or B. There is a significant decrease in the amount of people living on earth because the planet is well past it's natural carrying capacity. If neither of options are taken soon option B is going to be taken for us by our good friend mother nature, and I bet there are less than 50 million people that really care about it because we all look after #1 first.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old January 21, 2012, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Unfortunately, as you can see the British parliament is like ours: empty when all the good stuff goes on...
Yep the sad thing is, is that this MP speaks the truth and most people probably think he is a senile nut job.

About the point he made that Palestinians will soon outnumber the Jews in Israel guess what has happened every time some super power has been pulled out and left a minority in charge. Genocide; see Bosnia, South Africa, Rwanda, Darfur, Germany, Ethiopia and now old arguments are even starting in Kenya and creating problems there. Eventually the majority takes the power back because they possess strength in numbers as opposed to political strength and when you are fighting an enemy that has no politicians your politicians are dead in the water.
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Old January 21, 2012, 04:03 PM
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I think one of the problems is that Isreal isn't going away and any solution has to acknowledge that. To add to your point about not giving a shit, which is mostly true I think, the Palestinians "allies" in the neighbouring countries don't even give a shit about them, they build walls to keep them out too and manipulate the situation to help keep the Palestinians poor and desperate to make Israel look worse and to try to undermine Isreal. If they really cared about the Palestinians they would take them in or offer territory for them to have a real country. As long as the end game for the muslim countries is elimination of Isreal it's naive to think that Israel is going to pull any punches.
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Old January 21, 2012, 05:04 PM
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I think one of the problems is that Isreal isn't going away and any solution has to acknowledge that. To add to your point about not giving a shit, which is mostly true I think, the Palestinians "allies" in the neighbouring countries don't even give a shit about them, they build walls to keep them out too and manipulate the situation to help keep the Palestinians poor and desperate to make Israel look worse and to try to undermine Isreal. If they really cared about the Palestinians they would take them in or offer territory for them to have a real country. As long as the end game for the muslim countries is elimination of Isreal it's naive to think that Israel is going to pull any punches.
I don't think that the Muslim countries end game is to get rid of Israel or anything like that, if you think about it before western politics (and Russia) got involved in the middle east they were fine. They had their own localized issues but what country or group of countries doesn't. By providing financial and military backing to certain groups we have thrown the middle east's balance off. It was never the most stable region but it definitely wasn't the crapshoot that it is now. I think they just want to have their own way of life like us but to many western countries that is unacceptable for some reason, we feel the need to impose our way of life on these people and they are rejecting it which causes more problems than they originally had.
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Old January 22, 2012, 09:10 PM
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Yes most of my anger was at JJThomp as it sounded like he would like it if the Israeli Jews be wiped out. That incredibly angered me.

By no mean am I saying Israel is always in the right. Sure they didn't take their country back in the right way and don't always have the best intentions for other groups but I think if most of you knew what the U.S.A. has done in the past you would be very angry at them. Seems like you guys are trying to say that Israel is the worst country on earth. That is not true. You guys also claim that the Palestinians are being genocide. That is also not true.

I do very well know about genocides going on in Africa even now in places like the Congo and there are rumors of them starting in other nations usually Muslims vs. Christians.

Did you know that there are talks of some European nations splitting like Belgium. If you go back in history there are so many nations that either don't exist anymore or their borders are much different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
See what happens? Start talking facts, debating middle eastern politics without ANY hatred and we're suddenly all anti Semites.
P.S what do you think is going to happen when a U.S president stops funding the israeli army? The country is going to collapse and the Palestinians will go to war with the Israeli's and take back their homeland and mass genocide of jews will follow. And guess what, everyone will look away just like WWII, because no one gives a damn about Israeli Jews, they would have let Hitler kill all the jews but he tried to take over the entire world so people fought to stop him. The whole world was going to let the jews die.

Tell me that isn't hatred?

Also about one of your earlier comments all the US "funding" to Israel is actually a loan and Isreal has to pay it back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1 View Post
Belgolas, over-reaction much lately? I see nothing that could be even taken out of context as hatred here, merely critism. As usual, the no critism of Israel crowd is represented everywhere by someone.

Whether or not the Palestinians are good people, do they deserve to be starved to death? Deprived of basic human needs? I do not wonder for a second why they are so warlike towards the Israelis although that does not make it right either.

Anyhow, if Israel is allowed to attack Iran, we won't need to worry much about their future, or even our own for that matter, should the Russians and CHinese make good on their threats. I really cannoty believe WW3 is really going to be started by Israel.
Oh I have plenty of criticism for Israel but they are not the only country that needs criticism.

Israel cannot start a war against Iran as it doesn't have any long range bombers. Even if the U.S. would start a war I doubt Russia or China would get involved as they have their own domestic problems. Russia may go into violent protests because the people want democracy. China has a lot of problems of its own.

Besides the U.S. military is something to be feared while China and Russia's armies are getting pretty outdated. Hell no other nation has a super aircraft carrier and the US has 11 and they are replacing 10 of them with brand new ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rommelrommel View Post
I think one of the problems is that Isreal isn't going away and any solution has to acknowledge that. To add to your point about not giving a shit, which is mostly true I think, the Palestinians "allies" in the neighbouring countries don't even give a shit about them, they build walls to keep them out too and manipulate the situation to help keep the Palestinians poor and desperate to make Israel look worse and to try to undermine Isreal. If they really cared about the Palestinians they would take them in or offer territory for them to have a real country. As long as the end game for the muslim countries is elimination of Isreal it's naive to think that Israel is going to pull any punches.
Israel not going away is not a problem as it is their right to exist. It was their land 2011 years ago but the Romans kicked them out. Israel is also one of the first people groups to settle that area. Israel also built Jerusalem. All of this is very well documented.

You are right in saying that the neighboring nations don't want the Palestinians as they for the most part didn't accept the Palestinian refuges. Egypt nor Jordon want "their" land back.





Now I agree that Palestinians should be able to have their own nation but asking right now they are not making things easy when they shoot rockets and kill Israelis.
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