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  #31 (permalink)  
Old January 11, 2011, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Let's put it this way: If AMD is aiming Bulldozer at Bloomfield, the market will sigh and move on because 2011 is meant to surpass Bloomfield in every way possible. If they aim it at SB performance, the reaction will be the same since there is no way GF's immature 32nm process will produce cores with the same efficiency performance as Intel's second generation 32nm processors.

With Bulldozer, AMD faces the same problem as they currently do: their technology curve is significantly behind Intel's and they will once again be relegated to a "value" option and nothing more. To make matters even worse, the delays with Bulldozer mean it will likely compete against the 22nm Ivy Bridge processors. Hence why I use the word "compete" very, very loosely.

One other thing to take into account: working Ivy Bridge processors have been already shown working behind closed doors.
AMD doesn't have the R&D budget that Intel can work with, nor do they have the financial pull to "control and direct" certain retailers. To make money you first have to spend money.....
If anything, the performance gap between AMD and Intel is probably going to get bigger down the road.
Fusion might be superiour to Intels counterpart, but this won't last past the first or second generation, then Intel will have either surpassed AMD, or at least leveled the field, for above mentioned reason.

Now Intel will feature SLI and Crossfire support on their boards, which AMD isn't likely going to have anytime soon.

I have been giving my money to AMD for a long time now, but I am rapidly losing hope for that to continue.

/Bulldozer better be an amazing chip, or else it's i7-2600K for me.
/rant
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old January 11, 2011, 11:23 PM
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re : legal...of course nvidia will either charge a crapload of money or not give them sli now that they're in bed with intel. stupid move, but hey.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old January 11, 2011, 11:37 PM
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hold on a sec, do they need a chipset or just pay a fee? the sli 'hack' proves it doesnt need a chipset to run sli....right? :)
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old January 11, 2011, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by _dangtx_ View Post
hold on a sec, do they need a chipset or just pay a fee? the sli 'hack' proves it doesnt need a chipset to run sli....right? :)
Why would they bother taking AMD's money at this point? Nvidia has the next 5 years with Intel for 1.5 Billion dollars?
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Old January 11, 2011, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by CMetaphor View Post
Loosing hope? Then just give your money away to the bigger company just because theyre bigger. If you value innovation and competition, don't.
Oh, I do value those points, that's why I am waiting for Bulldozer before I decide which way to go. I don't mind 10% less performance for 3/4 of the price of Intels products. Let's hope that is what Bulldozer will be.

AMD has now more than ever the chance to raise their image, make people really interested in their products, if they were to finally move their asses and use the current tools of social networking and communication. There is so much potential in that field...
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Old January 12, 2011, 12:34 AM
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true but wouldnt a greedy person want more? :)

about pricing, they cant put it too low because they still have loads of phenom II's and such in the channels.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old January 12, 2011, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Let's put it this way: If AMD is aiming Bulldozer at Bloomfield, the market will sigh and move on because 2011 is meant to surpass Bloomfield in every way possible. If they aim it at SB performance, the reaction will be the same since there is no way GF's immature 32nm process will produce cores with the same efficiency performance as Intel's second generation 32nm processors.

With Bulldozer, AMD faces the same problem as they currently do: their technology curve is significantly behind Intel's and they will once again be relegated to a "value" option and nothing more. To make matters even worse, the delays with Bulldozer mean it will likely compete against the 22nm Ivy Bridge processors. Hence why I use the word "compete" very, very loosely.

One other thing to take into account: working Ivy Bridge processors have been already shown working behind closed doors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMetaphor View Post
Thanks Sky. Nice optimism there... at least where know where your preference lies.
How exactly do you read "preference" into anything that SKYMTL wrote there? I've never understood the mentality of equating speaking plain truth with being anti-something.

I agree that AMD's smaller R&D budget means that they need to compete differently, but disagree with the path they appear to have taken. Rather than engaging in a complete media/information lockdown which only feeds the "no news is bad news" bandwagon, they instead should be active in the community and promoting the strong points of their upcoming tech.

If you think back to their recent success', things like unlockable cores, affordable Hexa-cores, and reasonably priced top end chipset motherboards come to mind.... let's hear a bit about that.

With that in mind... maybe the "resignation" of the CEO is a good thing. Maybe (and this is complete speculation), it was his policy to lock down all information.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old January 12, 2011, 06:40 AM
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I would love to see real competition throughout the cpu range, but I play in the bang for buck world myself. So as long as AMD can keep giving me more value I will stick with them. That said their bank account probably can't survive always selling value based products. Here's to hoping BD can work miracles.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old January 12, 2011, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMetaphor View Post
Thanks Sky. Nice optimism there... at least where know where your preference lies.
On the contrary, I want everyone to succeed. Unfortunately, sometimes the truth sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa seba View Post
AMD doesn't have the R&D budget that Intel can work with, nor do they have the financial pull to "control and direct" certain retailers. To make money you first have to spend money.....
If anything, the performance gap between AMD and Intel is probably going to get bigger down the road.
Fusion might be superiour to Intels counterpart, but this won't last past the first or second generation, then Intel will have either surpassed AMD, or at least leveled the field, for above mentioned reason.

Now Intel will feature SLI and Crossfire support on their boards, which AMD isn't likely going to have anytime soon.
Personally, I think Fusion could be an awesome platform for AMD but as we have seen in the past, having a better platform means nothing if the support isn't there.

AMD has already partially cocked things up by pulling forward the Brazos platform "release" and introducing it without properly functioning drivers. That in itself can and will turn OEMs, system builders and consumers off.

For the enthusiast AMD will continue to be a secondary choice due to their lack of dual card options. Crossfire is great and all but people want the choice between it and SLI. AMD doesn't allow their motherboard partners to license the technology for the time being so they have been relegated to either using a bridge chip like the Lucid Hydra or not implementing SLI at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CMetaphor View Post
Yes, AMD doesnt have the R&D budget, yet they still continue to innovate and make more advances in technology than Intel ever does. Intel just takes AMDs ideas. Or steals.

Loosing hope? Then just give your money away to the bigger company just because theyre bigger. If you value innovation and competition, don't.
It think those are some pretty broad statements and completely false. Both Intel and AMD have long lists of patents associated with their names and both innovate or they just wouldn't survive. AMD has made good use of their x64 instruction sets since their inception and Intel's new AVX instruction set could be a game changer. However, you have to remember that while it takes a concerted effort by both parties to bring technologies forward, without Intel's support any new technology is pretty much dead in the water.

I also find it funny how you equate AMD's size directly to their ability to compete. AMD was fully ahead of Intel with the released of the Athlon 64 until Intel released its Core architecture. They (AMD) had the ability to continue a trend of technological leadership but instead screwed the pooch with the original Phenom series. That disaster had nothing to do with Intel as it was a disaster of AMD's own making which set their product development back years.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old January 12, 2011, 09:19 AM
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Well, in terms of their CEO resigning, i give you this:

WSJ: AMD's Meyer lacked vision, ousted accordingly -- Engadget

Maybe he was the reason why AMD was mum on CES. Then again, the article states that he wasnt interested in the mobile and tablet market. Who knows...

Assuming that was the reason, i still dont see why AMD was quiet about bulldozer. But i agree, i can only root for the underdog for so long until i get fed up and follow the trend...

Much like that failing Mitsubishi brand. They effed it up with the 3G eclipse and basically trickled down to their other models. EVO 10? pffttt...

I lost hope for that car maker. I really wish they just die off.
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