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  #11 (permalink)  
Old December 20, 2007, 01:48 PM
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The author is definitely a heretic trying to lead an anti-pc movement.
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Old December 20, 2007, 03:51 PM
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If you ask me, Macs are for people that know nothing about computers and are easily convinced to buy things by a marketing campaign.

Lets see someone with a mac beat my PI time or 3dmark score then we will see whats faster.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old December 20, 2007, 07:21 PM
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I don't intend to start a flame war but...
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Originally Posted by Eldonko View Post
If you ask me, Macs are for people that know nothing about computers and are easily convinced to buy things by a marketing campaign.
I have real reasons based on _my_ experience with Macs. Some reasons that I like my primary Macs is because they are quite stable and rarely have any sort of failure( I will however admit that recently Apple's quality control has gone down). Granted, out of more than 15 I do have a couple older ones with CPU or mobo issues but I should remind you that there are only two computers in this house that were purchased new by this family. All the rest are second hand as either a whole unit or assembled out of a bunch of parts from here and there with things like drives, cards and a couple PSUs new from local PC shops or NCIX(/me thanks SKYMTL for the Neopower and then pets it as it sits among the parts of his G4 spread about his desk due to his most recent urge to modify his case... again.).

In fact I have to say the most common issue I have with my Macs(although still pretty rare) would be ever so slight filesystem corruption sometimes when the power goes out unexpectedly while doing disk intensive things. However, it is actually pretty rare and is quickly and easily fixed with little data loss.. Ok, so I lost a kernel extension and a couple preference files couple months ago or so but nothing serious that would have prevented my Mac from booting.

Unless I am forgetting something the last time I formatted and reinstalled on any of my OS X running computers was when I upgraded this old G3 PowerBook I am using right now from 10.3 to 10.4. That was August 17th 2006 7:15PM. Before that it had been running an install since before November 2005(sorry, don't have an exact date). I did not have to but I wanted to so as to have a nice clean fresh install, I am sure all of you can understand that no matter what OS you use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldonko View Post
Lets see someone with a mac beat my PI time or 3dmark score then we will see whats faster.
Here is a not so spectacular one from 2006. That is also the older model of Mac Pro, the newer ones have Xenon 5300 series. I might also point out that officially the Mac Pro is workstation class and as such it is not all that important to have gamer class graphics cards.
Mac Forums - View Single Post - Mac Pro bechmark Windows with 3D Mark

It is pretty unlikely but if you want I could see if someone that I know with an 8 core(3Ghz, 5300 series) Mac Pro with 24GB RAM has windows installed on it. If she does she might be able to provide some more recent benchmarks with better hardware than the quad 2.66Ghz stuff others benchmarking have. ( http://www.danamania.com/tmp/christmas_ram.jpg )
I might consider poking around some Mac oriented forums to see what hardware people have and see if they have windows installed as well.

Some results from SuperPI in 2006(this is what you were talking about right?)
SuperPi 2M post your mac! - Mac Forums
I would be willing to bet that an 8 core Xenon 5300 series setup could provide at least a decent time with SuperPI assuming it can make use of all the cores. :P
Have not looked at much in the way of results for SuperPI though so I don't know.

For a CPU and RAM based benchmark(contains Mac and PC results including 8 core Mac Pros):
Geekbench Result Browser: Top

I think that is it for the moment.. Knowing me I probably forgot to mention something. *sigh*

Oh oh, Apple has a habit of introducing new models and updating existing ones in early to mid January as well as around June or July or somehting so there *might* be something more updated around the corner. That is pure speculation though as I have no way to verify things.
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Old December 22, 2007, 04:02 PM
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I'm not a big fan of Apple, especially because they are severely overpriced for no reason whatsoever. I do love OS X, though. It's a great operating system.

However, when it comes to laptops, the MacBook Pro is among the best. It was the first one to use the GDDR3 version of the 8600M GT, making it essentially the fastest DX10 laptop available. Now that the 8700M GT is out though, that isn't true anymore.


But for the price, I'd rather just get one of the high-end Asus notebooks for about $500-1000 less.
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Old December 22, 2007, 05:05 PM
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Oh, by the way. I got in contact with her but she only had windows in vmware so I doubt these are at all accurate, also, when she gave windows more RAM(I don't know how much) the time went down. I feel that I have to say the use of vmware was affecting things, though I suppose if I can find a MacPro with the same or close CPU speed and type this might give a look at the difference between running windows natively and virtualizing it.

Code:
[07:19] 	MacJunky	do you have windows on your MacPro?
[07:19] 	Agatha	in VMWare, yeah
[07:20] 	MacJunky	I don't know the performance of VMware but I was wondering if someone with a decent Mac Pro could run Super_PI and 3DMark06 in windows
[07:21] 	MacJunky	I don't know how those would do in vmware though
[07:22] 	*	Agatha could try
[07:22] 	Agatha	vmware only gives 2 cores to windows, though
[07:22] 	MacJunky	oh :\ never mind then
[07:24] 	Agatha	what sort of numbers should be coming out of super_pi
[07:25] 	MacJunky	I don't know
[07:25] 	MacJunky	that is why I want to know :P
[07:26] 	Agatha	19s for 1M here
[07:26] 	Agatha	0.8s for 64k
[07:27] 	Agatha	36s for 2M
[07:27] 	Agatha	seems to only be using one core of the two anyhoo
[07:28] 	MacJunky	>_> 300Mhz G3 w/ 1MB L2 takes between 10 and 13 mins for 2M
[07:28] 	LSD`	hahaha
[07:28] 	MacJunky	400Mhz PII takes about the same as well
[07:29] 	MacJunky	that G3 is under Tiger and the PII under win 2000
[07:36] 	Agatha	gave it more RAM - 26s for 2M this time
[07:36] 	MacJunky	hmm
[07:42] 	Agatha	http://www.danamania.com/tmp/superpi.png
[07:53] 	LSD`	Core = Awseome :)
[07:54] 	LSD`	We need someone silly enough to buy a Phenom system for comparison
*shrug* Perhaps I should find out how much RAM windows in vmware was allowed and see if the times could be further reduced with more. After all, she does have 24GB at her disposal. :P
Be nice if I knew someone else with a high end MacPro that had windows installed natively though.

Last edited by MacJunky; December 22, 2007 at 05:12 PM.
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Old December 22, 2007, 09:34 PM
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I don't even want to know how much an octa-core Mac Pro w/ 24 GB of FB-DIMM RAM would cost ... I'm guessing it's at least 6 months of my gross income ...
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old December 22, 2007, 09:48 PM
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She did not get all her RAM from Apple so it is not quite expensive as you might think. Yes, I can admit to Apple charging a fair bit for RAM.
But just think, that sucker can take 32GB of FB-DIMMs, imagine paying for that anywhere. I am sure the purchase location would be highly excited though.
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Old December 23, 2007, 12:32 AM
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I can't even find 4 GB FB-DIMMs ... nor does Apple actually say they support them on their website (It says up to 8 x 2 GB FB-DIMMs).

Regardless, a base Octa-core Mac Pro w/ 1 GB of RAM goes for $4596 ... and 2 x 2 GB of FB-DIMMs goes for $285 on NCIX (x4 for 16 GB = $1140 [$5399 from Apple.ca *gulp*]) ...

$4596 + $1140 = $5736

No doubt there's better than a 7300 GT and a single 250 GB HDD in that thing, too ...

You can use any GPU in a Mac Pro as long as there are drivers for it, right ?

Last edited by Jmac; December 23, 2007 at 12:38 AM.
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Old December 24, 2007, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
I can't even find 4 GB FB-DIMMs ... nor does Apple actually say they support them on their website (It says up to 8 x 2 GB FB-DIMMs).
Mac Pro Memory - Mac Pro Quad Xeon Memory, Mac Pro 8-Core Xeon Memory DDR2 667MHz Fully Buffered 240 Pin DIMM PC5300 Upgrades at OtherWorldComputing.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
You can use any GPU in a Mac Pro as long as there are drivers for it, right ?
Not quite, need a ROM. The people at Welcome to The Mac Elite (formerly strangedogs) are working on it. Last I checked they still do not quite have editing EFI ROMs down just yet so they are pretty much limited to cards like the GF 7800GTX and Rad X1900XTX. Apple does offer a Quadro FX 4500 but I can't recall someone saying they flashed one without issues yet.
You can however use other cards and SLI with windows if I recall though. :\
Yes, I know, Apple needs to get their posterior in gear in this area.

*Edit
Unless I am mistaken the MacPro (like at least the later PowerMac G5s [edit]yep, and they were a bit 'splosion prone as well :P Hardmac.com : Le "Macbidouille" in English [/edit]) is said to have a 1 kilowatt PSU or at least something in the high 900s. If this is true Apple should not have that big of an issue compiling SLI drivers for OS X and letting users toss in some nicer cards. It is unlikely but Apple, if you are reading this, give us some batter cards! I mean, the rest of the computer can handle them so why not? It will most likely only attract more people, is that so bad?

Last edited by MacJunky; December 25, 2007 at 10:38 AM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old December 26, 2007, 04:32 AM
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Why do you want to go SLI or throw a really great gaming card into a Mac? Even with Windows running natively, games on the Mac are not really ... consistent... for lack of a better word. Now if gaming really was good on the Mac then by all means. But at this stage in the game it's just not there :\

However I do have to admit I like Macs for Final Cut Studio. I used to use Premier and After Effects on PC and since I started using FCS with its excellent integration of editing, motion gfx, audio and dvd authoring... I would never try to do any semi-pro video/dvd work on a PC again.
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