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Old April 30, 2010, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Zero82z View Post
There are pirates who will steal a game no matter what. There are fanboys who will buy the game no matter what. You can't sell anything to the first group. You don't have to try with the second. What developers and publishers have to focus on is the group of people who care enough to actually buy games if they turn out to be any good. The only thing DRM does is drive those people away.
There's at least one more group of people - the people that, given the choice between waiting a few weeks to play the latest AAA-game for free, or paying to play it on day 1, will choose the latter. No sane developer believes their DRM won't be cracked - all they're really hoping is that it stops the day 0 and day 1 piracy and pushes people towards buying it instead. And the combination of a huge pre-marketing campaign, coupled with a stubborn copy protection scheme that forces them to wait a few weeks... impatience can be a pretty strong motivator. Whether it pays off or not, I suppose they've got experts and analysts to figure that much out.
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Old April 30, 2010, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Thund3rball View Post
I don't disagree with you, but looking at the numbers from a developer's or publisher's point of view... it's pretty hard to just ignore piracy.


Basic DRM or not... they obviously felt it was necessary. And six months after its release, on just one torrent website (Mininova) The Witcher was being downloaded over 3,000 times per day. Multiply that by n torrent sites and factor in day 1 piracy as being much higher than that and ... well that's why PC games have DRM.

PC Gaming's Piracy "Sales" Charts - Piracy - Kotaku

Again, I don't agree with DRM nor am I buying any games with the new Ubi style DRM, but I do not blame game companies for DRM, I blame pirates.
You don't really think that those 3,000 times a day equates to 3,00 sales a day do you? Lets face it the vast majority of people downloading it are not ever going to buy it. The point is they are still selling copies of that game and have 0 DRM. I highly doubt they would have lost any sales if they had no DRM from the start. The people that bought the game would have still bought it, and the vast majority who downloaded it still would have. That is for a game that was not a draconian DRM scheme.

Now take AC2, I was interested in the game, until I found out it was going to be "checking in" with Ubisoft continuously. Even though I have a constant connection, I just cannot endorse that "solution" So that is a lost sale due to DRM. Now if I decide to end up getting it, then I will still have to download a crack just so I can play it without it checking up on me. That is the problem, this kind of DRM does not stop piracy, none of it does. All it does is cost sales and upset the paying customer.

Remember back in the day when the copy protection consisted of something like a cardboard wheel that you had to set to get the right word? Now that was doable copy protection, but of course that will not happen because that would cost money, of course I'm sure it would be less the the research into DRM.
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Old April 30, 2010, 06:30 AM
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I have no problems with most kinds of DRM. But a offline game needed to be connected 24/7? I game on a laptop and a lot of the time I'll play single player games somewhere I can't connect. I was interested in AC2 but I never got it for this reason. My friend just lent it to me on 360 so I'll get to play it anyway.

I'm glad this got cracked though. It'll at least show other developers that it doesn't work.
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Old April 30, 2010, 08:07 AM
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I have no problems with most kinds of DRM.
To me the problem of DRM is I don't know what it's doing and how it affects your system. And you are never told up front that it will be installed and how to get rid of it.

The so-called SecuROM Removal Took didn't work for me with Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. Although I was able to finally get rid of it from the Registry (you can't just deleted it), I'm not totally certain it's not a form of RootKit and if it's still on my drive even though I've uninstalled Mass Effect. (SecuROM is made by Sony, infamous for Rootkits.)

In the class action suit against EA (Spore DRM), the court documents state that SecuROM IS installed on ring 0 (contrary to what Sony claims on the SecuROM website). That case was settlde recently with the proviso that EA must declare the DRM on the retail packaging, in the EULA and on their website. Except if you go to the EA store website and click on any game, you'll only see a tiny link at the bottom of the page, "Product Eulas and other Disclosures." If you click on that, you get a long list of games that you have to scroll through and see what is listed. So technically they've complied, but EA has made certain it's going to be almost invisible to most users. As it's a fairly recent settlement, it's too early to expect retail boxes of games with the DRM statement yet. But that's only one publisher and one form of DRM.

The EA settlement:
Eldridge v. Electronic Arts, Inc. - Home Page

Further, I've asked the question of DRM and Rootkits on the Microsoft forum site and nobody from Microsoft has commented (yet). It's been up for 2 days now, but I suspect it's '10 foot pole' subject.

I don't know enough about boot sectors and rootkits and it's difficult to find trustworthy answers on it.

Are some forms of DRM Rootkits?
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Old April 30, 2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thund3rball View Post
I don't disagree with you, but looking at the numbers from a developer's or publisher's point of view... it's pretty hard to just ignore piracy.
I'm not saying they should ignore piracy, but I am saying that they should understand it. DRM does not stop piracy. All DRM is cracked eventually, and there is nothing that the publishers can do about it. Instead of focusing on trying to make better and better DRM that will just end up failing in the end, they should put their resources toward the game itself. The only surefire way to ensure that a game will sell well is to make it a good game.
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Old April 30, 2010, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ipaine View Post
You don't really think that those 3,000 times a day equates to 3,00 sales a day do you? Lets face it the vast majority of people downloading it are not ever going to buy it. The point is they are still selling copies of that game and have 0 DRM. I highly doubt they would have lost any sales if they had no DRM from the start. The people that bought the game would have still bought it, and the vast majority who downloaded it still would have. That is for a game that was not a draconian DRM scheme.

Now take AC2, I was interested in the game, until I found out it was going to be "checking in" with Ubisoft continuously. Even though I have a constant connection, I just cannot endorse that "solution" So that is a lost sale due to DRM. Now if I decide to end up getting it, then I will still have to download a crack just so I can play it without it checking up on me. That is the problem, this kind of DRM does not stop piracy, none of it does. All it does is cost sales and upset the paying customer.

Remember back in the day when the copy protection consisted of something like a cardboard wheel that you had to set to get the right word? Now that was doable copy protection, but of course that will not happen because that would cost money, of course I'm sure it would be less the the research into DRM.
Again, I am not endorsing DRM. I am simply stating it's existence is due to pirates. So you can blame them for it, not Ubisoft etc.. I won't buy a new Ubi game either with that DRM. I agree it definitely turns some people off. But only Ubi will know the outcome of its effectiveness. It's obvious they are testing the market with the deluge of games they are releasing with it on and will measure and analyze sales, free downloads and compare to previous releases and decide on the future of their new DRM. People may just adjust to it... we don't really know yet.

Remember HL2? Ya it came packaged with unholy DRM that forced you to connect online and install some software that was going to spy on you and infect your computer with all kinds of nasties. Now Steam is revered, not hated (for the most part). It took time and a lot of work on Valves part to make it a household name, but they did it. I know it isn't pirate proof either, but it was a step in that direction.

Of course I don't believe each pirated copy = a lost sale. That is ludicrous. But it is impossible for a business to ignore the numbers. If you actually start digging around the web on piracy and its effect on game companies you might feel differently. I am not even talking about big companies like EA or Ubi...

Calculating the exact effects is of course impossible but the numbers tell a pretty scary story. Does DRM work... on the PC I can't really know. However it's continued presence would have me think it helps at least a little. It certainly seems to quell the urges on the 360. Piracy on the PC is something like 10-1. For every copy sold 10 are pirated. On the 360 it's pretty much the opposite. Why? Because the 360 isn't just a point and click-able pirate machine and there's also being banned to help combat it.

Why do you think the PSP is a blackhole of AAA game titles and Sony went to a pure digital distribution with the PSP Go. Because people weren't buying games for PSP they were stealing them. There are well over 50 million PSPs in consumer hands, you would think that's enough to support a serious library of good games and give incentive to publishers to make quality games for it. Yeah... not so much. Instead it is becoming the Sony "App Store" (PSN) of low cost crap. The exact opposite effect of what pirates are so adamantly arguing for (i.e. better games).
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