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Old January 12, 2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by G777 View Post
Interesting information, but what do those numbers represent? I mean, 7.2% of what?
It has generally been thought that error rates were in the range of 1 per 10^12. The CERN data, though, shows that the actual rate is several orders of magnitude higher at 3 per 10^7. This means that on average, one bit out of every ~333GB of in-memory data will be corrupted. The more RAM you have addressed, the higher this rate translates into a failure probability. With 24GB of addressed memory the probability of data corruption is 7.2%. Changing some bits in memory may have no effect, changing others may cause BSODs, changing others yet may cause filesystem failure.

Some brief background - the last time ECC was widely available in the desktop market was back in the SDRAM days. The odds of data corruption in what used to be more common 128MB and 512MB setups were 0.04% and 0.2%, respectively. Hence, ECC became unimportant in desktop computing. Since there was a ~5% performance hit associated with error checking and higher costs, ECC was used almost exclusively in server and workstation environments and phased out of the desktop segment by the time DDR came around.

Fast forward a few years to DDR2, and common configurations became 2GB and 4GB setups. Error probabilities remained reasonably low at 0.6% and 1%, respectively - so nothing changed regarding in-memory error checking during the PC's LGA775 renaissance. So by the time DDR3 rose to prevalence, ECC's absence from the desktop market was pretty well cemented.

Today, though, 12GB and 16GB configurations are growing in popularity, featuring error probabilities of 4% and 5%, respectively. With probabilities like those, people really ought to start seriously scrutinizing the importance of their data. The problem is, after such a prolonged absence from the desktop market, ECC RAM generally isn't supported by today's mainstream motherboards.

Now, I think we may be headed for a watershed moment. With SB-E, 32GB is about to become fairly common within the desktop sphere. With a 10% error probability, we may see enough critical failures to push ECC back into the mainstream.
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Last edited by Dead Things; January 12, 2012 at 02:58 PM.
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Old January 12, 2012, 03:08 PM
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Thanks for the explanation seems an interesting topic, I'll have to do a little research of my own.
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Old January 12, 2012, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by zsamz_ View Post
i bought them for specific ics
i wanted a kit that will do 2250 cas9
i have no intention to run anything lower than cas9
on x58 i ran 6-6-6
sandybridge doesn't care for low cas

i bought my kid a set of the 1600mhz snipers they overclocked to 2050mhz
freind has a set of 1866 vengeance n barely does 1900 lol

my ram can be pink as far as i'm concerned as long as they clock
I wish I knew all those stuff. On how well each cas runs on each mobo. And I cant find any articles about it. So you dont recommend the vengeance?

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Originally Posted by Dead Things View Post
It has generally been thought that error rates were in the range of 1 per 10^12. The CERN data, though, shows that the actual rate is several orders of magnitude higher at 3 per 10^7. This means that on average, one bit out of every ~333GB of in-memory data will be corrupted. The more RAM you have addressed, the higher this rate translates into a failure probability. With 24GB of addressed memory the probability of data corruption is 7.2%. Changing some bits in memory may have no effect, changing others may cause BSODs, changing others yet may cause filesystem failure.

Some brief background - the last time ECC was widely available in the desktop market was back in the SDRAM days. The odds of data corruption in what used to be more common 128MB and 512MB setups were 0.04% and 0.2%, respectively. Hence, ECC became unimportant in desktop computing. Since there was a ~5% performance hit associated with error checking and higher costs, ECC was used almost exclusively in server and workstation environments and phased out of the desktop segment by the time DDR came around.

Fast forward a few years to DDR2, and common configurations became 2GB and 4GB setups. Error probabilities remained reasonably low at 0.6% and 1%, respectively - so nothing changed regarding in-memory error checking during the PC's LGA775 renaissance. So by the time DDR3 rose to prevalence, ECC's absence from the desktop market was pretty well cemented.

Today, though, 12GB and 16GB configurations are growing in popularity, featuring error probabilities of 4% and 5%, respectively. With probabilities like those, people really ought to start seriously scrutinizing the importance of their data. The problem is, after such a prolonged absence from the desktop market, ECC RAM generally isn't supported by today's mainstream motherboards.

Now, I think we may be headed for a watershed moment. With SB-E, 32GB is about to become fairly common within the desktop sphere. With a 10% error probability, we may see enough critical failures to push ECC back into the mainstream.

So as far as I understood, the less Ram size, the less probabilities onto critical failures? And if thats the case, its 16GB its 5% probability of what? I mean in a year time what are the chances I will get critical failure? Correct me if I'm miss understood. Although still I believe moving from 12GB to 24GB, I will see a noticeable difference since I'm using the machine everyday more than 9,10 hours.
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Old January 13, 2012, 12:26 PM
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I mean in a year time what are the chances I will get critical failure?
Each 24GB block of data stored in RAM has a 7.2% probability of having one corrupt bit of data. But it should also be noted that each 24GB block is an independent event, so the probability does not rise with more blocks of data. I also appreciate that you will not have addressed all 24GB of RAM at all times, so the probability of failure will be lower with less address space utilized. So consider 7.2% your maximum failure probability.

As ECC is usually not an option, and since there are a number of legitimate uses for having that much RAM in a desktop board, I can only offer these three words of advice:

Backup, backup, backup.
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Old January 13, 2012, 12:55 PM
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I wish I knew all those stuff. On how well each cas runs on each mobo. And I cant find any articles about it. So you dont recommend the vengeance?
nope corsair is last on my list
you never know what revision you gonna get
i been buyin gskills for the last few years n they rock
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Old January 13, 2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by zsamz_ View Post
nope corsair is last on my list
you never know what revision you gonna get
i been buyin gskills for the last few years n they rock
I'd have to agree on the gskill reccomendation. They are making some good ram these days and at a great price too. After buying a dual channel kit of ocz gold and having both sticks faulty I switched to gskill and never looked back. Usng gskill in my folding box too; all 16 sticks worked flawlessly.
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Old January 13, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Thank you. I'm between Newegg.com - G.SKILL Sniper Gaming Series+ Turbulence II 24GB (6 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7T2-24GBSRD and Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 24GB (6 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7T2-24GBRMD

They look amazing. Even gskill replied on a review and set its their best 24gb ram. Since my mobo can accept more than 24gb I probably stick with that
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Old January 13, 2012, 03:48 PM
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I'd vote G.Skill too, currently running in both my rigs.

I know ram is cheap, but 24GB seems a lot
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Old January 13, 2012, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by saltypopcorn View Post

thats way too expensive
just get 2 good 12gb sets

Newegg.ca - Mushkin Enhanced Redline 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model 999000

or 3 sets of the cas6 stuff
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