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Old December 26, 2011, 02:24 PM
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Post A Cascade?

For a number of reasons, I took a bit of a hiatus from the forums. Not just this one, but all of them.

Being a cooling guy has it's benefits and drawbacks I guess. Being a Dad has them too.

So I'm actually here to ask a question about a Cascade, or maybe them in General.

I make them as well as the smaller refrigerated coolers. More for fun than for profit but it's like anything else you love doing.

This one in particular...


Specs
2x5200btu rotary compressors (samsung and something else)
12 plate HX
Homemade oilsep with ball valve
10000btu HE condensor/fan
A Duniek stepper evap I had kicking around
One of Ron's flexlines (very nice btw)
375psi HS cutoff
1st stage is 5.2' .031" captube
2nd stage is 7.3' .031 captube
Temps around -100c unloaded, est. -80 to -85c 300w







The inside...











And with the case, painted black.

Since you guys aren't as into the phase change and stuff, it's more interesting to ask.

It's a small one, -100c is no load, -95c is idle, -80c is high load, in the region of the 6 core 990x kind of thing, around 350w I'd say is what they pull if you push them really hard.

I know there's builders asking 1500 to 2000 bucks and some even more.

But I wonder what they're 'worth' and I mean really worth to someone with a realistic budget, as opposed to those crazy impulse buys where you start a PM with a builder and by the end he's convinced you to part with 2 grand of your money.

'SOk if I can't post this question, since it applies to this (which is much smaller, quieter and about 10c warmer than the big/loud/serious cascades) and pretty much the general question of 'what's a cascade worth?'

I put it up for $950 obo on another forum but I'd like to know if that sort of matches up to what people would think is right.

The only decent 'regular' phase cooler that's on the market is 900 plus tax at FCPU (for those that look around at that stuff) and the other smaller one can hardly keep up with old ones, much less anything over 2 cores.

So it seems like that sounds quite good for a 2 compressor cooler. Is it too little? Too much? What is a Cascade worth?

Gray
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Old December 26, 2011, 03:02 PM
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I've seen phase changes that look a little rugged that don't perform as well for 300-500.

With the great performance and the fact that it's a painted, sleek and finished product that adds alot of value.

$950 could possibly be fair but it's hard to find a buyer of a non 'new retail product' that is willing for out that kind of dough.

I don't know what the parts that go in are worth or how much time and effort went in so I wouldn't dare throw out a random number but I would definitely put it in the 650+ ball park, 950 could be fair if I knew more about the subject.
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Old December 26, 2011, 03:23 PM
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To be honest, I'm sort of glad you don't :)

I'm not really price-checking with intent as such. I might have been, but like I said (and you've confirmed) this forum isn't the one to sell this kind of thing on.

From what I see without getting into the brand names and who's of it...

Higher end production phase (single stage) - 899 plus tax (if applicable)
Low end production phase (SS) - 400ish (it's been discontinued, selling as 30day warranty end of line, and rated to only 120w so a bit useless for real OC) plus tax
Custom single stage, various builders -50c or so - 700 to 900 on average, usually 300w plus, some open and ugly, some cased

Cascades -100c dual compressor stuff - are all custom, but used ones seem to be around 900 at best, some I've seen up to 1500
New ones are brutal. Little as 1500 all the way to 2500 bucks I've seen for a couple of 2 stage fancier ones.
3 stage I haven't seen a price tag but yikes.

Parts...

2 compressors, 300 or so (ebay new) or 500 plus for new retail
Heat Exchanger 80 ebay / 150 retail (both new)
Evap kit 150 to 200 on average
oilsep 50 to 200 (homemade to retail)
wiring/switches etc - 100
pipework - 50 to 100
So roughly 900 plus for the parts best case scenario if you use all new stuff.

I'm a bit out of the norm, since I do it but also work and don't need to make money on them. But really that's kind of the best case on them mostly for the cost to build. I didn't include cases and gas since that's so varied.

I get lucky a lot, I'll buy damaged AC units new and strip them for parts, reuse everything so maybe my cost into it is 600 to 800 on average, depends on what I got and what I paid.

But really, I'm curious what people do think when they see the weird and super cold stuff.

Thanks for posting that :)

Gray
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Old December 26, 2011, 03:39 PM
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Yeah I figured I'd be way off once I looked at the thread again. The things I've seen selling around here are before are $400 ~-30c single stage which seem much more affordable in the BST forum market.
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Old December 26, 2011, 04:26 PM
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I was looking for a Cascade about 6 months ago and talked a well known builder on another forum. He quoted me $1600 but that was new, 1 year onsite warranty, and would hold -100 C at 300W load, I believe it was dual stage but I could be wrong on that account. Don't know if that helps you or not, but if you settle on a price drop me a PM and I may be interested. Looks great man, very sharp.
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Old December 26, 2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jibz View Post
Yeah I figured I'd be way off once I looked at the thread again. The things I've seen selling around here are before are $400 ~-30c single stage which seem much more affordable in the BST forum market.
Yeah :) If they were used, then it's normally a lot easier to get cheap. Nice when they're still nice if used, but there have been a few that are really beat up! Especially used Cascades. I don't know what it is, but they look ok when they're built and then the foam tears up and paint get's scraped...

I like the cased kinda ones a lot more for that though. I try to keep the insides tidy and secure but it's hard to make the pipes and insulation decorative.

This one's new, and I build them so give a year on it. Guess I should have said that

I sell them cheap so normally cover anything and everything that goes wrong but don't cover shipping. And if it's damaged in shipping I'll take and fix it and worry about whether they cover it later. I usually deal with the insurance from here as well (better, I think, to make people feel like they're not on their own) but some ins companies won't do that, has to be the guy that receives it.

But yeah, 1600 sounds about right for the new builds on Cascade dual stage. I find that steep, but I make 'em so I know what they cost. The compressors are mostly the same price, small or large if they're rotary when I buy them, but at time they can be a touch more.

I wanted this one to be super small (it's about 14"x14"x19") and fairly quiet for a rotary Cascade.

I've been trying to keep them smaller even with the larger compressors.

I keep seeing Cascades that are gigantic carts. usually 2-3 feet wide, 4 feet long etc. I don't know where I'd put one of those :p

Though I guess I'm not charging a lot for the time in my estimates. I actually like doing it, so I'd rather get to build, than charge loads and never get to build?

Gray
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Last edited by gray mole; December 26, 2011 at 06:38 PM.
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