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  #21 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2012, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigFOIG View Post
Windows 8 is actually really user-friendly if you have a touchscreen.
That's the real kicker....

Imagine if they'd left the desktop as it currently is under win7, but had the metro interface available for folks who wanted to use win8 on a touch screen enabled device..... They'd be getting strong positive reviews on the improvements they've made, along with major Kudos as to how well they managed to incorporate the touch screen features for tablets.

They could have had a major win rather than seeing just about every legit tech source give the OS thumbs down based on them forcing Metro to the forefront.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2012, 12:13 PM
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I couldn't have said it better
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old December 2, 2012, 10:36 PM
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None of the informed sources I've seen indicate that quality/sales performance of Windows 8/RT was related to Sinofsksy's departure.

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Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
I dunno.... I'm not sure windowsRT has a place in the marketplace.
I think the biggest problem with RT isn't what people are talking about, it's rather that Intel has put massive resources into R&D and now has Atom chips that are competitive with ARM from a performance/battery life standpoint.

This certainly wasn't the case several years ago when MS started the work for Windows on ARM, but now as a manufacturer, you can put an Atom chip in the same form factor as an ARM chip and get similar performance, but running Windows 8 instead of Windows RT.

As a consumer, the price of Atom vs ARM SoCs is similar enough to be insignificant in the final product - so the primary difference between the two is that RT devices will ship with Office included in the price, and Windows 8 devices will have the ability to run x86 desktop software.

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Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
The only benefit I see to windows RT is that it has the same look and feel of win8, which sure as hell isn't a selling point in my books.
Well, it has a few real benefits over other tablets, off the top of my head:
Excellent integration with MS online services (xbox music, skydrive).
Includes MS Office.
Massive device compatibility advantage. You can plug a Windows tablet into a USB hub with all your regular peripherals attached and hook up a monitor to use with the desktop for Office/IE, or you can remote desktop to a full PC on the tablet's external monitor.

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Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Windows key: Switch between Modern Desktop Start screen and the last accessed application

If that's how it works, then no, it's not the same as the win7 function and I'm not interested, and thus complaining about the lack of start key is valid and not misinformation.

I'm only interested in having a M$ supplied (not third party) start key function or no win8 at all.
That's essentially the same thing as Win7, just instead of the start menu in the corner, the start screen covers the entire screen.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old December 3, 2012, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars View Post
None of the informed sources I've seen indicate that quality/sales performance of Windows 8/RT was related to Sinofsksy's departure.



I think the biggest problem with RT isn't what people are talking about, it's rather that Intel has put massive resources into R&D and now has Atom chips that are competitive with ARM from a performance/battery life standpoint.

This certainly wasn't the case several years ago when MS started the work for Windows on ARM, but now as a manufacturer, you can put an Atom chip in the same form factor as an ARM chip and get similar performance, but running Windows 8 instead of Windows RT.

As a consumer, the price of Atom vs ARM SoCs is similar enough to be insignificant in the final product - so the primary difference between the two is that RT devices will ship with Office included in the price, and Windows 8 devices will have the ability to run x86 desktop software.



Well, it has a few real benefits over other tablets, off the top of my head:
Excellent integration with MS online services (xbox music, skydrive).
Includes MS Office.
Massive device compatibility advantage. You can plug a Windows tablet into a USB hub with all your regular peripherals attached and hook up a monitor to use with the desktop for Office/IE, or you can remote desktop to a full PC on the tablet's external monitor.



That's essentially the same thing as Win7, just instead of the start menu in the corner, the start screen covers the entire screen.
I'm sorry, no it's not essentially the same. If we were to make a comparison to win7, using the start screen in that manner would be similar to dumping each and every program icon onto the desktop, and haven't us geeks already spent the last 10+ years trying to convince our family/friends not to do that???

Just because the majority of users didn't know how to better manage their icons is no reason to force that bad practice on those of us who know how.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old December 3, 2012, 06:23 AM
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I'm not really sure what the difference is?

Win7 - Hit the windows key, the start menu pops up, you can type to launch a program, or hit the windows key to get rid of the start menu.

Win8 - Hit the windows key, the start screen pops up, you can type to launch a program, or hit the windows key to get rid of the start screen.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old December 3, 2012, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars View Post
I'm not really sure what the difference is?

Win7 - Hit the windows key, the start menu pops up, you can type to launch a program, or hit the windows key to get rid of the start menu.

Win8 - Hit the windows key, the start screen pops up, you can type to launch a program, or hit the windows key to get rid of the start screen.
Who types? Who remembers that the name of the ISO burning software they installed a year ago is Ashampoo?

Sorry, but the windows 8 start screen compares to win7 start button/directory in the same way that a toolbar laden browser (with 1" of actual browsing space) compares to browser in full screen mode.

The glut of start button replacement software on the market demonstrates that M$ isn't serving their customer base by leaving the start button / directory out.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old December 3, 2012, 08:15 AM
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Clearly the people saying it is fine for enterprise have never worked IT in enterprise before.

95% of the users are computer illiterate and know just enough to do their jobs (AKA, memorize the keystrokes). You move an icon on their desktops 2" and they are lost. They will never spend a second trying to learn anything new.

Win8 in my workplace would have resulted in half the staff going on stress leave and me getting fired.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old December 3, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeetard View Post
Clearly the people saying it is fine for enterprise have never worked IT in enterprise before.

95% of the users are computer illiterate and know just enough to do their jobs (AKA, memorize the keystrokes). You move an icon on their desktops 2" and they are lost. They will never spend a second trying to learn anything new.

Win8 in my workplace would have resulted in half the staff going on stress leave and me getting fired.
lol so true
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old December 3, 2012, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Who types? Who remembers that the name of the ISO burning software they installed a year ago is Ashampoo?

Sorry, but the windows 8 start screen compares to win7 start button/directory in the same way that a toolbar laden browser (with 1" of actual browsing space) compares to browser in full screen mode.

The glut of start button replacement software on the market demonstrates that M$ isn't serving their customer base by leaving the start button / directory out.
I guess we have very different workflows.

My main desktop is an install of Win7 since September 2009 - the start menu is a disaster, I've never organized a thing on it, and looking at it now, I'm not sure I've used it with the mouse to launch a single program in the past three years.

I know the names of all my programs, I don't need a list of them to read through in order to remember what program to use for something.

Incidentally, I think the start menu and start screen are both pretty poor (though on par with each other) - they both get stomped in utility by good launchers like Alfred or Quicksilver.

Last edited by Mars; December 3, 2012 at 10:48 PM.
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