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  #31 (permalink)  
Old March 31, 2008, 02:50 PM
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Well the I am saying that you should never use a screen saver. If I am going to be away from my comp even just for a few minutes I just put it in stand by. But the biggest thing we have to change would be industrial building not cars. Cars don't cause as much pollution as people think. Especially with the newer cars like hybrid. Also I am too lazy to do a search but I saw a pie chart and it showed that the number one contributer to carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is the earth. By a large margin. We only add like 1/4 of it. I am not 100% sure if all they claim about global warming is true. I am not sure that if the polar ice caps melt that there would be massive flooding and level 6 hurricanes. But I do believe that we contribute to some of global warming but not all. We would have to some volcanoes from erupting :p. One thing that bugs me the most is smog though. I hate it.


this is in China.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old March 31, 2008, 03:52 PM
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Yup I've seen that 2004 temp graph before and it totally ignores temperature islands...AKA city's....you know the places where the MAJORITY of long term temperature recordings have been taken from. As anyone who has driven with the top down knows when you drive into the city at night the temp goes up...significantly. This anomaly is called "temperature islands" and it surrounds all major cities. BUT it does help discredit medieval optimum....too bad its an apples to oranges comparison (and we still can't grow firggin' wheat in iceland...not even the new 6wk shorter fast grower stuff we have now, where as the vikings lived on the stuff as a major food staple back in the "good olde days").

I remember the junk scientists talking about global cooling and how we were all going to DIEEE...if we didnt give them gobs of money to save us. Then the sun enter another cycle and things started to warm up....now its global warming and once again the scientists with their hands out are screaming...give us money or were all gonna DIEEEE.....ba humbug.

I consider myself a greenie just one that hates to see Global warming equated to reducing pollution. Reduce, reuse, recycle becasue its good for environment not becasue it will stop global warming. IF GW ever gets discredited I'm afraid it will set the green movement back a good 30yrs....which would suck.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old March 31, 2008, 04:58 PM
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The hockey stick image has been discredited numerous times. Urban heat island effect (as previously mentioned, and although the IPCC claims to have adjusted their data, recent statistical work has shown that they do not take into account the correlations between the UHI effect and temperature properly), the removal of many temp-monitoring stations in the former USSR, the fact that numerous stations have had their monitors moved over the past few decades, and the fact that ~one dozen of the 70 or so tree ring data sets used to estimate the temperature were showing increases in temperature that actually did not occur (tree rings grew due to other environmental reasons and they are not a direct proxy for increasing temperature) all moderate the severity that is being blasted at us from the media.

I really appreciate that so far this thread has not gone to the level of baseless epic apocalyptic rhetoric. I do want to say that I don't doubt things are changing, but I feel that the holes in the evidence are too big to make me believe it is as severe as the IPCC is trying to say.
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Old April 1, 2008, 07:16 AM
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Thunberball and Barbarossa, are you guys running for political office? Are you even reading what you write??? You honestly believe Earthday will cause any change???

I live my life EVERY day as efficiently as possible. I don't need some feel good crap like Earthday to realize that we ALL need to change the way we live drastically. I replaced ALL my lightbulbs with energy efficient and I turn them off when I don't need them. I bought all new appliances that are energy efficient and I properly recycled my old ones. I grow my own vegetables and I compost all my waste. I recycle as much as I am allowed and I only put out 1-2 small trash bags every 2 weeks and that is for a family of 4. I don't talk the crap of Earthday, I live it every day without needing some gay catchphrase to show how good I am. You think I am pessimistic? WRONG! I am realistic. I gave up my gas guzzling cars for smaller cars and I even walk to the store when possible. I walk my kids to school and I teach them to not litter. I walk by piles of trash and garbage thrown from cars or improperly put out on garbage day. I see all the gas guzzling trucks/SUV's/cars driving around with one person in them doing their jack-rabbit starts and idling while people go into the store. Don't even try to label me. You are both so WRONG and off base it is not even funny.

Try this guys. Instead of making fun of me, put your own habits out there. How do you live? How much do you recycle? What kind of car do you drive? What do you actually do to better the planet? I work hard at it, but I am part of a very small minority and we know that the general public are useless slugs that do not care and will not make the required changes because it cuts into their quality of life.

Global warming has not been proven and again someone points at one set of facts to draw their conclusion. You could never make me believe that global warming is the problem or is going to cause our demise. As said in "The Matrix", human beings are like a virus. They move into an area and devour all the resources and move onto the next area. That is what will kill us all. Ontario turns more farmland into housing than anywhere else in the world, yet you all think earthday is more important.

Get your priorities straight. If you are having fun insulting me so be it because I could give a shit less what anyone thinks of me. I know what I am doing is right and I guarantee 110% my footprint on the environment is much lower than ANYONE else on this forum. I am actually very happy with my life and how I live it, but it totally disgusts me when I see the rest of the world shitting in my backyard without fear or consequence.

Live life in reality, not in some feel good fantasy world.
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Old April 1, 2008, 08:28 AM
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I tend to agree that our ravenous consumption of resources outweighs the threat of anthropogenic contributions to climate change-although the two are linked somewhat.

Theres been some good points made here. Lifestyle changes are important. My house burns oil..trying to get money together to switch to something else-options are efficient wood stove! Oven is old so it leaks heat-again trying to get some money for that. Old house need new insulation-the lists gos on.its all about money --but we support local producers who use "reasonable "methods, grow what we can, dont use plastic bags where possible, buy unpackaged food where possible.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old April 1, 2008, 08:53 AM
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b1lk1

No I am not having fun insulting you. You are doing an awesome job with all your efforts, something you have not mentioned before. That is very commendable and impressive! I am sure many of us here do as much as we can also. I recycle, drive a small car, take transit when I can, watch my energy usage etc.. as well. But just because you are already aware of what you can and should be doing doesn't mean everyone is. And maybe you think Earth Hour was a load of BS but you have to realize that events like this, in addition to other public and private messages, can help open people's eyes. It gets them thinking, talking and learning about what they can do to help and be more conscientious about how they live their lives. This leads to putting pressure on governments and industry for changes as well. No it's not going to solve any problems in one fowl swoop, but it is another drop in the bucket towards a better tomorrow. That's all I and probably others are trying to say.

Think about other large issues that have improved over time. Let's take smoking for example. I am not criticizing smokers, I used to be one for more than half my life. It used to be that everyone smoked. We smoked at work, school, restaurants, on the plane etc... Nowadays we know better. Not just a few of us... all of us. Because the message got out. People started doing something about it. Now I hardly know any smokers at all and there is almost nowhere to smoke except in your own home. You cannot even smoke in a car here if you have a child with you. This kind of change doesn't happen in one day. It starts small and grows. That's the same with being conscientious about energy, waste and the environment.

Even at my office here. We have about 100 office and 300 plant workers. There is NO recycling program for this industrial area. Either we take our recyclables home or they go in the garbage. Some of us are now putting pressure on management to get a recycling program happening here. And I am sure something will come of it. it may even work it's way into the manufacturing process? This may spark other plants in the area to do the same. Or maybe we all come together to divide the costs for the entire industrial park? This is exactly the kind of effect Earth Hour + other initiatives may have on people. You cannot condemn Earth Hour just because you are already on the ball. Many are not and there is still a lot that can be done.

Cheers
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old April 1, 2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1 View Post
I know what I am doing is right and I guarantee 110% my footprint on the environment is much lower than ANYONE else on this forum.
While I am not disputing you being efficient please don't accidentally or intentionally start such a contest, well, not in this thread at least(note to self, start a thread for people to brag and share ideas in appropriate section of forum later). Some of us have gardens, compost and recycle as well, and also like you have a new and reasonably small car(in this case a 2007 Civic). Some of us don't turn on house heating(wood stove and/or heated water in pipes in cement floor) until 5C-7C, as well as have no air conditioner. While I can't use a fluorescent bulb in the designated computer room because it would completely ruin the cases of my older Macs we do have them in other areas of the house. I have even been considering replacing the under cabinet/above counter lighting in the kitchen with LEDs too. I just have to track down a good reliable source for boxes of 50-100 5mm, 3mm as well as surface mount LEDs of various colours because paying $1.50 at radioshaft/"the source" is a load of crap.

I personally don't like driving as I don't trust other drivers at all and think that cars as ugly as new ones are a distraction but that seems to just be me. *shrug*
If I had a spare $10,000 I would get myself a nice old Plymouth mopar or something and do an electric conversion for the times when a car is pretty much required for quick hops into town or for a job.
If I had the spare cash I would want to load up the roof of the house with photo voltaic cells as well but I like many many others just don't have that much money at the moment.

Getting back on topic, as Thund3rball said, change on this scale takes time and needs to start small. We can try to help by volunteering at recycling organizations and such in spare time if we have any too. Not to mention harassing large companies or going out and manually picking up trash from the sides of the road. But it is just going to take a while to happen and we are hard pressed to change the rate that it does because it involves changing how other people think as well.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old April 1, 2008, 03:39 PM
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Check out the mercury in these "amazing" fluorescent lightbulbs. Saving electricity is great but they really need to ensure people know how to dispose of these things properly. I have never seen an ad for CFLs that mention they should be recycled due to their toxic contents.

Spills, Site Cleanup and Disposal | Mercury | US EPA
Compact Fluorescent Lamp Study Report, Bureau of Remediation and Waste Management, Maine Department of Environmental Protection

But back to Earthday - I think its nice we are "getting the message out there" but how many years now have we been talking about recycling, reducing garbage, composting, conserving energy etc? I remember as a kid (early 90s) that it was starting to be an issue, and 15 years later municipalities are barely managing to offer us these services. Hell, Ottawa was found to be sending the 'recycling' to dumps in China, if you can believe that. It really made me feel as if all the effort I took to sort my recycling each week was pointless, since my government wasn't even recycling my stuff.

Now if only we had an Earth-hour every day...well that would be something.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old April 1, 2008, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b1lk1 View Post
I know what I am doing is right and I guarantee 110% my footprint on the environment is much lower than ANYONE else on this forum.
You sure you want to go there bub. I drive a diesel vehicle that as soon as it comes of warranty will be running home brew biodiesel. Me and my family BUILT our staggered stud construction house (IE no wall has contact w/ the outside thus heating and cooling require significantly less energy). We use ultra low CFLs 7 watt ones from Ikea and 9 watt ones....and have been since the 80s (in nfld we were part of a pilot program for off the grid lighting....man those suckers were HUGE back then!)

This summer we are (hopefully) be putting in 2-3 KW/h worth of solar panels and with in the next decade will have 10+KW/h up and running. The majority of our fruits and vegetable are grown by our neighbors and our beef & pigs are locally grown (thus no transportation cost to enviro). We grow our own chickens so that we do not need any bug spray for our area as they eat all the flies before they hatch. We let out grass grow long so as the reduce its impact on the environment.....should i go on or do you feel like getting down off your high horse yet?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old April 1, 2008, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
You sure you want to go there bub. I drive a diesel vehicle that as soon as it comes of warranty will be running home brew biodiesel. Me and my family BUILT our staggered stud construction house (IE no wall has contact w/ the outside thus heating and cooling require significantly less energy). We use ultra low CFLs 7 watt ones from Ikea and 9 watt ones....and have been since the 80s (in nfld we were part of a pilot program for off the grid lighting....man those suckers were HUGE back then!)

This summer we are (hopefully) be putting in 2-3 KW/h worth of solar panels and with in the next decade will have 10+KW/h up and running. The majority of our fruits and vegetable are grown by our neighbors and our beef & pigs are locally grown (thus no transportation cost to enviro). We grow our own chickens so that we do not need any bug spray for our area as they eat all the flies before they hatch. We let out grass grow long so as the reduce its impact on the environment.....should i go on or do you feel like getting down off your high horse yet?
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