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  #11 (permalink)  
Old March 25, 2011, 05:55 AM
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+1 on that, I know it is not Nvidia's fault for the Msi and Asus Drivers and they cant control the reviewer but it still died ! lol. Anyway, I am sure the next iteration of drivers will correct this, but it should have worked from the beginning with some kind of hardware protection.

since non of the reviewers paid for the card, it is still ok.
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Last edited by matsta31; March 25, 2011 at 06:04 AM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old March 25, 2011, 06:11 AM
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having the protection on the software side is very very dumb.

i say have a chippie,a nazi one at that, on the pcb that prevents you from jerking it on the dark side!

as soon as it even gets near some sort of remote trouble : 'nein! and off it goes. and the forceful shut downs will teach ya to

1-never ever again buy such crap and 2-dont mess with it~!
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Old March 25, 2011, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMetaphor View Post
I think that right there is the biggest issue. Its been a long while since I've seen a product that will allow itself to be destroyed. Over current and over heat protections should be standard and 100% functional as soon as it reaches any users hands, including a reviewers'.
It's not as though the 267.52 drivers forced the reviewers to go that high, or put the voltages that high automatically.

It was a willful choice by the reviewers to pursue extremely high voltages, DESPITE the fact that there we CLEAR instructions not to do so.

Basically, that is like blaming an exotic car company for not having a governor on your car, going over the 180km/h normal limit and blaming them when you crash!
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Old March 25, 2011, 07:49 AM
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this video blew one, TPU blew it twice...the OCP is not working in the driver ( it should be hardware IMO ). That let me think that Nvidia lower the core speed to that because the power need goes to fast a bit over these clock? Couldn't that be true?
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Old March 25, 2011, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiXT View Post

Basically, that is like blaming an exotic car company for not having a governor on your car, going over the 180km/h normal limit and blaming them when you crash!
You could and pretty sure you would win just saying they have to ensure the car get drivable at it's limit ;)
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Old March 25, 2011, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiXT View Post
It's not as though the 267.52 drivers forced the reviewers to go that high, or put the voltages that high automatically.

It was a willful choice by the reviewers to pursue extremely high voltages, DESPITE the fact that there we CLEAR instructions not to do so.

Basically, that is like blaming an exotic car company for not having a governor on your car, going over the 180km/h normal limit and blaming them when you crash!
But the point is that the "car" DOES have a governor, and it didnt work.

Or in the this case, the card is supposed to have OCP and it failed to function.

I can drop 1.6v or more into my Processor if i want, but the protect will prevent it from burning up or the system will just not post. It will NOT destroy itself no matter what I do to it. That's my point really
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Old March 25, 2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMetaphor View Post
But the point is that the "car" DOES have a governor, and it didnt work.

Or in the this case, the card is supposed to have OCP and it failed to function.

I can drop 1.6v or more into my Processor if i want, but the protect will prevent it from burning up or the system will just not post. It will NOT destroy itself no matter what I do to it. That's my point really
No, that's not it at all.

The card has OCP when it is used with the drivers that were INTENDED for use with the card.

When you don't use software, components parts etc. that AREN"T intended for pretty much anything.. things go wrong.

Again, car analogy, you slap an ECU into your car that allows you to run overly rich, and you know this because you want to run rich for what ever reason. Lo and behold your engine breaks down, catches fire, explodes what ever. Do you blame the car manufacturer? Do you blame the ECU manufacturer? No, you made a conscious decision to exceed what your vehicle was intended to support, DESPITE warnings about problems.

Granted, some AIB's provided drivers to the reviewers with OCP protection that did not cover the GTX 590 specifications. Its not that it failed, its just that in this early set of drivers, OCP protection rules were seemingly not present for the GTX 590. As such, MFGs made sure reviewers were aware of this fact and instructed them NOT TO EXPLOIT IT. There was CLEAR CUT INSTRUCTIONS saying to NOT EXCEED X.XX maximum volts. In fact, NVIDIA reports, that with many websites, they explicitly told the reviewers NOT TO EXCEED X volts when they sent them a second card... instead they did, and video taped like a bunch of idiots seeking a story

Compounding the issue is that these are SUPPOSED to be professionals. If it was the general public, and these were drivers released to the general public, then MAYBE there would be a case, because consumers can be idiots. But reviewers, operating under the guise of "professionals" should have the wherewithal to be able to follow instructions, heed warnings, accept limitations and know what can happen as a consequence.

Honestly, I equate this on the same level as the people in the USA who spill coffee on themselves and sue the restaurant because they didn't know it would be hot. Except in this case, "CAUTION HOT" was plastered all over the cup.

Last edited by FiXT; March 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM.
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Old March 25, 2011, 11:51 AM
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That is actually it, but the car analogy doesn't work in this case.

The real problem? OCP is driver-dependant. No protection for hardware should be dependant on its software, ever. I install the wrong drivers? The card should either not perform correctly or just not install correctly with them... NOT destroy itself.

Yes, I agree that certain reviewers didn't use their best judgement... but who can really blame them? Again, ill use the example of my Proc: I overvolt to 1.6volts (wayyyyy too high). It will either A) not post or B) run very hot. In the case of A) you reset the CMOS and you're good to go. In the case of B) the thermal protection should kick in to prevent any damage. But in either case, for this example, which version of Windows or your Motherboards Bios is no factor in the survivability of the card.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old March 25, 2011, 12:16 PM
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First of all let me say that I don't like dual GPU cards, they run hot and you can get better for the same'ish by getting TWO single gpu cards.

With that being said Cmet, you CAN run extremely high voltages on a CPU and not have the temp limiter kick in...its called after-market cooling. Does it reduce the lifespan of the CPU...YUP. Can you fry your CPU doing it...yup. Should we all scream "OMG TeH world is ending because Intel/AMD didnt protect me from myself?"...nope. Cowboy up and learn from your mistakes and move on.

Screaming "hardware limiter" is asinine. When ocing you pays your money and you takes your chances. Hell, when did overclocking go from being a PRIVILEGE to a RIGHT? Every time we overclock a component we are making a CONSCIOUS decision to reduce lifespan and risking it going POOF in order to reduce cost of upgrades. The idea of OC'ing was originally to turn a cheaper processor into a more expensive one (not trying for 40% plus speed boosts). BUT we all knew that doing it came with its own set of risks. Ignore those risks at your own peril. A case of the stupids / ignorance is NOT an excuse as the mistress of OCing is not a forgiving deity. ;)

If you want to OC the snot out of your GPU(s)....you dont buy a dualie! You buy two single GPUs, slap full coverage water blocks on them and have at it. The stock cooling (especially on duals) is great for STOCK settings but much like the stock cooler which comes with a CPU, it blows chunks at over clocking. Really would anyone be sympathetic if you "blew up" your CPU and / or mobo when doing extreme OC's on STOCK cooling? Should we all demand that Intel and AMD put in place hardware limiters to reduce OC potential becuase some peeps were foolish enough to go to the bleeding edge...and fall over it? Are we really turning into a society where "its not my fault its the mfg'ers fault" when WE do something stupid? I dont think that we need to wrap ANY piece of hardware in bubble wrap to protect ourselves...from ourselves. You should be able to do anything you want with your own equipment....even if its "stupid"

The peeps who went on these suicide runs did so KNOWING that it was going to kill it and they did it anyways. They wanted to get the page hits.
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Last edited by AkG; March 25, 2011 at 12:22 PM.
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Old March 25, 2011, 12:17 PM
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