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  #51 (permalink)  
Old March 20, 2009, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Salavat23 View Post
And keep in mind, when would you actually put your ENTIRE system on load 24/7 for more than a few minutes? I'm talking about the ODD, GPU, HDDs, RAM, EVERYTHING on 100% load?
I put EVERY machine I own under CPU/GPU load 24/7/365 by folding.
If it's not folding, it's probably doing something else intensive.
In other builds (file servers mostly) the HDDs are under constant load. I wouldn't say 24/7 but it's probably damn near close.

And since when does ODD and RAM count for "load"?
How the hell do you load test an ODD?
Since we're on the topic of loading strange things, my NIC is under constant load too on my file servers. However... since they don't contain PCI-E slots (that aren't used) they aren't folding so the CPU sits idle pretty much 24/7.


To me, the only thing that matters for load testing is CPU/GPU.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old March 20, 2009, 10:21 PM
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Yep folding... both my GPU at 100% and my CPU at 70% 24/7 except for random reboots..... I'd say this sucker is drawing some power.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old March 20, 2009, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by death_hawk View Post
XP Pro could have done this too....
And is a good bit cheaper than 2k8
I did cover this opion, even if only indirectly. XP Pro would technically be covered in the low end of OS pricing ($200) Assuming a Vista Business License w/downgrade option.

As for the reason I included Windows 2008, there are plenty developers out there which for one reason or anther(not saying I agree with them) prefer to use a Server level OS as a Workstation OS. Why? You ask them, I included it in my figures because there are people out there who do use it as such, on both sides of the fence(Mac vs PC).
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Originally Posted by death_hawk View Post
And I seriously think you're HUGELY overestimating your power figures there Chilleh.
I have a Q6600 on load with a 8800GTS320 on load (both) and it was barely cracking 250W.
Better to overestimate than under.

I didn't find his figures completely unreasonable(he did have a few flaws but 350watts at full, or at least almost full load, I admit, isn't outside of the realm of possibility), I even conceded in my last post that a good quality 620Watt PSU may be enough to run it.

I just like my overhead, it gives me peace of mind, especially when it comes to workstations/servers. I belive that many other builder would agree with that sentiment when it comes to workstations/servers.

With that being said when I was making the comparisons, the Mac Pro comes with a 1Kw PSU(980Watt Delta to be exact), and when comparing Apples to Apples(lol), I can't let the PC Slide($$ wise) just because you *might* be able to get away with it.
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Originally Posted by death_hawk View Post
But I also can't explain why my Pentium D on an SC846E1 w/ Redundant 900W PSUs with a pair of 1TB Blacks and no GPU was pulling about 220W load....
Heh, who knows

Even though a loaded CPU/GPU might say 100%, doesn't mean 100% of the silicon is being used. Different *types* of loads will load different parts of the silicon, which can produce difference power usage levels. A prime example of this would be the linpack and furmark, both of which can easily push a GPU/CPU over its TDP limit even while at stock clocks.

With that said Linpack and FurMark are NOT, and do not produce typical load levels. They really do push the numbers to the extreme.
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Originally Posted by Salavat23 View Post
Then you were using a garbage 60-70% efficiency PSU.
Do a search for "Spare Parts PC". You can see for yourself that I was not using a "garbage" PSU.
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Originally Posted by Salavat23 View Post
when would you actually put your ENTIRE system on load 24/7 for more than a few minutes? I'm talking about the ODD, GPU, HDDs, RAM, EVERYTHING on 100% load?
Like I, and many others here have already said, Folding, Crunching, or more specific to workstations, Encoding, Rendering, etc. Plenty reasons why one may put a 100% load everything all the time.

---------------------------------------------
On the high-end, I was comparing 2 "balls to the wall" machines with similar specifications, in this case the Mac Pro wins, even if its only due minor details such as OS licensing.

That being said, depending your your needs, a similarly *self built* machine, with few exceptions(balls to the wall, assuming you do the upgrades on the mac yourself, for example) will be cheaper than a comparable Mac Pro. I wanna note I never argued this, even if I didn't say it explicitly.

My original point still stands, my original post still stands, which was that a Mac Pro is not unreasonably priced. I suspect that once Gainstown launches on March 29/31st, once HP, Dell, and etc release their machines, the Mac Pro will still remain quite competitively priced, as it did in the Harpertown days.

Don't expect anymore posts from me in this thread, we've butchered the original spirit of the thread enough. Regardless of if you think I'm right or wrong, we aren't going to change each others minds, so lets stop trying.

Last edited by Chilly; March 20, 2009 at 10:57 PM.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old March 21, 2009, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by death_hawk View Post
I put EVERY machine I own under CPU/GPU load 24/7/365 by folding.
If it's not folding, it's probably doing something else intensive.
In other builds (file servers mostly) the HDDs are under constant load. I wouldn't say 24/7 but it's probably damn near close.

And since when does ODD and RAM count for "load"?
How the hell do you load test an ODD?
Since we're on the topic of loading strange things, my NIC is under constant load too on my file servers. However... since they don't contain PCI-E slots (that aren't used) they aren't folding so the CPU sits idle pretty much 24/7.


To me, the only thing that matters for load testing is CPU/GPU.
When I said 100% load on everything, I meant everything. The ODD itself can consume up to 20W while burning a disk. Once again, I meant every single part. GPU/CPU load alone may only get you 85% of total power usage of the entire computer in most systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
I didn't find his figures completely unreasonable(he did have a few flaws but 350watts at full, or at least almost full load, I admit, isn't outside of the realm of possibility), I even conceded in my last post that a good quality 620Watt PSU may be enough to run it.
Which flaws? Did you even bother reading the article I linked to you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
With that being said when I was making the comparisons, the Mac Pro comes with a 1Kw PSU(980Watt Delta to be exact), and when comparing Apples to Apples(lol), I can't let the PC Slide($$ wise) just because you *might* be able to get away with it.
The old Mac Pro came with that PSU. The new one has a completely redesigned 80Plus PSU.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
Even though a loaded CPU/GPU might say 100%, doesn't mean 100% of the silicon is being used. Different *types* of loads will load different parts of the silicon, which can produce difference power usage levels. A prime example of this would be the linpack and furmark, both of which can easily push a GPU/CPU over its TDP limit even while at stock clocks.
If you add up the theoretical TDPs, it adds up to around the same thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
On the high-end, I was comparing 2 "balls to the wall" machines with similar specifications, in this case the Mac Pro wins, even if its only due minor details such as OS licensing.

You're kidding? You configured the high end PC with the possibility of a Blu-Ray drive, Workstation video cards, etc. All of which cannot be found on the Mac Pro from Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
That being said, depending your your needs, a similarly *self built* machine, with few exceptions(balls to the wall, assuming you do the upgrades on the mac yourself, for example) will be cheaper than a comparable Mac Pro. I wanna note I never argued this, even if I didn't say it explicitly.
What are you talking about? Oh great, now you're changing your argument.

You clearly argued in an earlier post that the Mac Pro is more expensive at the low-end, but once you start to add up the extras, it becomes more cost efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
My original point still stands, my original post still stands, which was that a Mac Pro is not unreasonably priced. I suspect that once Gainstown launches on March 29/31st, once HP, Dell, and etc release their machines, the Mac Pro will still remain quite competitively priced, as it did in the Harpertown days.
More specifically than saying that it isn't unreasonably priced, you argued, and I quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
The Mac Pro is not THAT expensive when you crunch the math, as long as you ignore HDD's and Memory upgrades and buy those parts yourself.

In other words, you clearly argued in an earlier post that the Mac Pro is more expensive at the low-end, but once you start to add up the extras, it becomes more cost efficient.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilly View Post
Don't expect anymore posts from me in this thread, we've butchered the original spirit of the thread enough. Regardless of if you think I'm right or wrong, we aren't going to change each others minds, so lets stop trying.
This thread would have been long gone a several days ago anyway.

But its your rightful choice to choose if you want to continue, or if you want to flee.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old March 21, 2009, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Salavat23 View Post
But its your rightful choice to choose if you want to continue, or if you want to flee.
Flee? I simply have nothing constructive to add and neither do you. If you honestly want to continue this argument, you can PM me, come on IRC, or join the NCIX Gaming chat room on steam, but I'm not continuing it here.

All you've managed to do is misread and twist my words in your latest post.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old March 21, 2009, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Salavat23 View Post
When I said 100% load on everything, I meant everything. The ODD itself can consume up to 20W while burning a disk. Once again, I meant every single part. GPU/CPU load alone may only get you 85% of total power usage of the entire computer in most systems.
Personally while I'm burning a CD, I tend to AVOID full CPU loads and major HDD activity....
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old March 22, 2009, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by death_hawk View Post
Personally while I'm burning a CD, I tend to AVOID full CPU loads and major HDD activity....
Yeah, but the purpose of my statement was to try to replicate a 100% full load scenario.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old March 24, 2009, 11:20 AM
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I'm not a mac fan but I better get to learn more about this stuff since allot...and I mean ALLOT of guys are buying into this massive proprietor mac book craze thanks to the amazing IPOD phenomenon.

Have to find OS and snap it into a partition to play with on my eee 1000.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old March 24, 2009, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I'm not a mac fan but I better get to learn more about this stuff since allot...and I mean ALLOT of guys are buying into this massive proprietor mac book craze thanks to the amazing IPOD phenomenon.

Have to find OS and snap it into a partition to play with on my eee 1000.
Don't expect Mac OS X work work well on an eee, if at all. If your interested heres some good links with information about running Mac OS X on a PC. I've never done it myself but from what I understand you have to be careful what parts you use in a clone.

http://www.insanelymac.com/osx86db/
Main Page - OSx86
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old March 24, 2009, 01:41 PM
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I had OS X running on my aspire one from an external HDD and it looks like sleep, battery menu extra, and the card readers were the most important things to not work.. but then at the time I did not have a PC mic to test the mic in jack and I am not sure if I got around to testing the built in mic and webcam. Apparently the webcam is supposed to work though.

*shrug*

Just read about what others with the same hardware have found.
I still have a disk image of the HDD I used with my AAO so sometime when I have another spare HDD I guess I could play with it again.
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