Go Back   Hardware Canucks > HARDWARE > Power Supplies

    
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old May 29, 2010, 08:47 PM
Smoothie's Avatar
MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 271

My System Specs

Default

I got this unit as well. I haven't used it yet but I heard the same thing from NCIX forums and newegg reviews. If it whine you should send it back just in case. I prefer the Seasonic unit over the XFX due to the black matte finish and two rails with OCP. I mean the XFX looks pretty cool as well but it will clash with my black/red theme. Either way though, you can't go wrong with either unit.

Last edited by Smoothie; June 2, 2010 at 09:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old May 29, 2010, 09:21 PM
BootlegUsher's Avatar
MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 453
Default

Hey, speaking of multiple rails vs single rails, Antec has their own "PSU myths busted" on their site right now. Their article goes against the grain and says that multiple rails is better than single rail. It is surprisingly in depth and has a bunch of numbers and diagrams to back up their claims, although I can't say I understood it all.

Antec PSU

I am pretty confident that my M12D is the best of both worlds, since it has two rails. More then one, but nothing crazy like six.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old May 29, 2010, 09:24 PM
Banned
F@H
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mtl
Posts: 12,694
Default

virtual rails or something that give up to a certain amount than 'unite' to give more is the best.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old May 29, 2010, 09:47 PM
Banned
F@H
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,415

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BootlegUsher View Post
Hey, speaking of multiple rails vs single rails, Antec has their own "PSU myths busted" on their site right now. Their article goes against the grain and says that multiple rails is better than single rail. It is surprisingly in depth and has a bunch of numbers and diagrams to back up their claims, although I can't say I understood it all.

Antec PSU

I am pretty confident that my M12D is the best of both worlds, since it has two rails. More then one, but nothing crazy like six.
There is a lot of misleading information and half-truths in that article, but it is correct in saying that a multi-rail design with OCP is better than a single-rail design without OCP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _dangtx_ View Post
virtual rails or something that give up to a certain amount than 'unite' to give more is the best.
That doesn't exist. If the rails "unite" then it is really just a single-rail design without OCP, and that is certainly not the best.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old May 29, 2010, 09:58 PM
MpG's Avatar
MpG MpG is offline
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 3,144
Default

Yeah, I saw that PSU myth. Not perfect by any means (kind of a dick move comparing an OCP'd multi-rail with a non-OCP single-rail), but definitely an improvement over the old PCP&C one.

Out of curiosity, anyone know of a successful nail polish application silencing PSU coil whine? It's known to work on GPU's, but PSU's are different animals inside (and obviously some safety issues as well).
__________________
i7 2600K | ASUS Maximus IV GENE-Z | 580GTX | Corsair DDR3-2133
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old May 29, 2010, 11:32 PM
Banned
F@H
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mtl
Posts: 12,694
Default

i thought one had to use hot glue but if itsi n warranty..why bother? :)
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old June 1, 2010, 07:45 AM
Delavan's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mtl
Posts: 1,153
Default

Alright please bare with me on that one plz!

SKYMTL, as you reviewed this particular unit, what do you think of the methodology that led to this PSU blowing up twice (2 review units?).

Like I said, I ordered the XFX 850 watts. It's coming via Ground shipping from NCIX, so I'll get it on Friday in QC (or about that).

I read all kinds of nice reviews on this PSU (M12D clone). THEN I seen the one from OC3D:

http://http://www.overclock3d.net/re...850w_atx_psu/4


It's the famous review where the OCP FAILED or wasn't working?
Quote from OC3D:

Quote:
However, all is not well. Part of OC3D's PSU testing procedure involves a "MAX Load" test in which the PSU is placed under a continually increasing load which takes it outside of its rated specification. This not only identifies the true capabilities of the PSU (for example if it is a 750w PSU overclocked to 850w, or a 1000w PSU underclocked to 850w) but also ensures that the OCP (Over Current Protection) is fully functional on the unit. Unfortunately this is where the XFX failed in a BIG way.

And

An EXTREMELY loud BANG (heard even two floors down!) was emitted from the PSU accompanied by a bright flash. Yes, the XFX Black Edition had failed in a potentially dangerous way. Luckily none of the OC3D equipment was damaged by the elaborate death of the XFX PSU, but it is extremely worrying that the OCP protection on the PSU didn't kick in for a second time. Of course this could be put down to the unit being from a faulty batch, but as the unit tested in the video was the 2nd one to suffer this exact fate at the hands of our MAX LOAD tests, something does indeed seem wrong.
Well,
I realise it's an extreme test, not real life, but I feel like returning the PSU right away...

XFX did take note from OC3D test results and promised to do their own testing and checking with Seasonic....they never came back with anything....could they correct the issue without officially telling enthusiasts that they fixed everything?

XFX tech support denies the evidence of even what happened to OC3D.

Is OC3D'S methodology to blame?
Should I return the PSU (not even unboxed/unwrapped) to NCIx and pick something else?

As the XFX 850 is basically a M12D, does that mean that the same test would cause the M12D to blow up like this also?

My plan is to put the PSU in my rig in signature, next year to upgrade to a i7 OCed on air as far as I can, and to go crossfire 5870s...I know I won't reach/max out the PSU's lemit, but still why paying for a potential fireworks hazard?
__________________
i7 4770K @ 4.5GHz / Corsair H100i / Maximus VI HERO / 8GB Corsair Vengeance Red LP 1.5V 1866 / EVGA GTX780 ACX / Corsair Performance Pro 128GB SSD / Intel 520 120GB SSD / WD Black 640 GB storage

ROG G53SX laptop: i7 2630QM / 12GB DDR3 / GTX560m 2GB / 750GB 7200rpm (14 000 3Dmarks06)

Last edited by Delavan; June 1, 2010 at 08:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old June 1, 2010, 07:28 PM
Banned
F@H
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,415

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delavan View Post
I read all kinds of nice reviews on this PSU (M12D clone). THEN I seen the one from OC3D:

http://http://www.overclock3d.net/re...850w_atx_psu/4


It's the famous review where the OCP FAILED or wasn't working?
There is no OCP. That's how they turned the M12D into a single-rail unit. They removed the OCP that divides the single +12V source into two separate rails. However, since they weren't too bright, they didn't bother implementing any OCP on that single rail, which is why the PSU exploded. Twice. It's a design flaw, albeit one that you are EXTREMELY unlikely to encounter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delavan View Post
Is OC3D'S methodology to blame?
No. They did a good thing in performing that overload test. It's important to know that there is in fact no OCP, even though the average person will never have to worry about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delavan View Post
Should I return the PSU (not even unboxed/unwrapped) to NCIx and pick something else?
No. It's still a very good PSU, and unless you'll be overloading it by 100W (in which case it would be silly to get an 850W PSU in the first place), you have nothing to worry about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delavan View Post
As the XFX 850 is basically a M12D, does that mean that the same test would cause the M12D to blow up like this also?
No. The M12D has OCP as I explained above.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old June 1, 2010, 08:23 PM
Delavan's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mtl
Posts: 1,153
Default

Alright Zero82z,

Thanks for being straight up.

Check this out...Hardwaresecrets (Gabe) mentions this in his review...
Quote:

Quote:
This power supply uses a PS223 monitoring integrated circuit, which is in charge of the power supply protections, like OCP (over current protection), over voltage protection (OVP), under voltage protection (UVP) and over temperature protection (OTP, not implemented on this unit).
When linking to that PS223 gizmo chip's PDF... there some "apparence" of OCP???

http://www.siti.com.tw/product/spec/Power/PS223.pdf

Any good? I have no clue, as it's really deep into electronics...

Gabe also loaded the XFX 850 up to 996Watts and stated:

Quote:
Below you can see the maximum we could pull from this power supply with it still working within specs. If we tried to pull one more amp from any of the outputs the ripple would go out of range, showing that the power supply stopped working correctly. The idea behind of overload tests is to see if the power supply will burn/explode and see if the protections from the power supply are working correctly. This power supply didnít burn or explode.
I know you participated into these discussions on Xtremesystems on this testing also. I want to replace my aging Antec TPIII 650 by this (it's on it's way ).
If there is no OCP, technically, there is a chance that is the PSU blows, it takes everything with it right?
Now I have only one 5870. but plan to buy another one down the road and probably get a i7 platform next year.

I'll never go crazy and start adding a lot more. it would have been nice if XFX could've come clean and told people that a possible rev1.1 would correct the OP situation.

Now, how come neither HWC nor Jonnyguru pointed out that the darn PSU had no OCP ? Jeez, Jonnyguru gave it a 9.5/10 (well Oklahomawolf) almost kneeled down in front of the PSU to hail at it, sacrificing a goat to the XFX 850 god...(kk figure of speech).

I'm NOT happy.
__________________
i7 4770K @ 4.5GHz / Corsair H100i / Maximus VI HERO / 8GB Corsair Vengeance Red LP 1.5V 1866 / EVGA GTX780 ACX / Corsair Performance Pro 128GB SSD / Intel 520 120GB SSD / WD Black 640 GB storage

ROG G53SX laptop: i7 2630QM / 12GB DDR3 / GTX560m 2GB / 750GB 7200rpm (14 000 3Dmarks06)

Last edited by Delavan; June 1, 2010 at 08:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old June 1, 2010, 09:03 PM
Banned
F@H
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mtl
Posts: 12,694
Default

wait hold on a sec..a reputable psu without rubber? i mean protection???

thats....quite tarded. itll keep giving till it cant hold anymore, the bang/blowing and dying is quite natural in their test.

now, for someone at home, you better do your math properly, because sky's the limit(or death)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[FS] Antec Quattro 850 ddude27 Buy/Sell & Trade 4 December 16, 2008 11:30 AM