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  #231 (permalink)  
Old June 10, 2009, 07:57 PM
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I know I'm very late to this party, but life has really gotten in the way of computer stuff lately . Very, very impressive results, especially the load temps!

Tests done with Prime 95 for 30 minutes after a full shutdown and startup.

Idle temps taken 10 minutes after Prime95 shutdown. Highs and lows were eliminated from the average to eliminate spikes in the results and only the "middle" set of numbers (ie. not the warmup after just turning on Prime95) were used.

Ambients were ~25 C



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Old August 18, 2009, 11:05 AM
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This is the final report for HardwareCanucks IC Diamond Test results.



The group as a whole averaged a little higher than the overall averages, this could be a reflection of the groups preferred choice of comparison compounds. General enthusiasm was high, resulting in the highest return rate on results to date (68%).

I appreciate the effort involved in remounting sinks and the time involved in testing and reporting results. The great feed back from the people on the tests has helped us to improve our marketing message and to refine the application and troubleshooting feed back to our customers.

Special thanks to Nadeem for his organizational efforts in initiating the giveaway and sample mailing.

Thanks to all that participated and thanks to HardwareCanucks staff for the opportunity.

This thread is not closed, any and all updates, new results are appreciated


Andrew














NOTE ON COMPARISONS

When comparing results more credence should be given to larger sample sizes, smaller less so.

1-5 samples 1 or two tests can flip results either way so usually get thrown onto the miscellaneous group.

6-10 samples may start to indicate trends but can be heavily influenced by outliers and so are lightly weighted other than a general trend indicator

11-20 samples - Starting to develop more of a confidence in the trend direction.

20-30 samples - Confidence level improves.

30+ Samples - High degree of confidence














The laptop tests are from Notebook Review and help illustrate the expanded range of IC Diamonds use in in different applications. The VC/GPU tests across multiple forums I am in the process of breaking out and including those done here will be added as a final chart here at some point. The higher delta temps is due to no IHS and a smaller die contact, providing higher heat fluxes, hence the higher temp differences along with other factors such as compound failure due to the high thermal loads and higher % of generic compounds.





Bell Curve Notes

About half the data is reported in round numbers and approximately 50% of the total numbers were fractional numbers, so to include all numbers in the set I rounded the fractional numbers to the nearest ½ degree. This had a minimum impact on the overall numbers, for instance the mean dropped less than 2/100th’s of a degree.

Notes: IC Sampling Vs. Individual Tests

Innovation Cooling elected to use this more or less unique method to introduce our products as the review cycle runs like molasses for thermal compounds, 10 -12 for ICD in the last 2 years with many comparisons already obsoleted due to new product cycles.

Hardware reviews serve an important function along with observations of user experiences allow individual users to either consciously or unconsciously mentally benchmark results. Our problem was there were not enough reviews to to make comparisons on as compound comparisons are notoriously tedious vs. heat sink or other hardware.

Single tests , individual or even those done by Innovation Cooling are anecdotal in nature subject to limitations of methodology. While most pursue the most rigorous test procedure possible they still encounter fluctuations of several degrees C between tests/reviews.

Why does every test come to a different conclusion? The problem is that their sample size = 1.

Even collecting multiple readings the cluster size is = 1. An individual can collect all the data readings off one system, and will still have almost no statistical power (In statistics this is known as "Intra-Sample Cluster Correlation")because the test set up is dominated by methodology. This is a problem not only in paste reviews, but in other hardware reviews, heat sinks, etc. as well.

In the final analysis methodology ends up defining the final placement of all compounds- All test methodologies fail to take into account things that have a major impact on paste performance. For example the mounting system along with mechanical contact between IHS and sink as evidenced with our independent contact/pressure testing. Variability was very high on the contact results with perhaps 1 in 10 having any thing near what you might call full contact, even on those with lapped components.

In considering pressure related to mounting hardware some pastes perform relatively better under poor mounting, others perform relatively better under good mounting (viscous ones such as ICD). Considering ICD - people that had poor results with ICD had very poor mounting. Once they improved that mounting, ICD did considerably better. Of course, so did their old paste. But ICD improvement >> old paste improvement. Generally, this resulted in ICD>old.

In summary, sample size = 1 tells little. . Sample size matters!

ICD has been extensively tested by 391 independent users in 11 forum groups data that is compiled with real world, real users test results


Final

Last edited by ICD7; August 22, 2009 at 02:03 PM.
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Old August 22, 2009, 01:38 PM
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The final report is Final for those that have an interest
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Old August 26, 2009, 06:44 PM
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Another review for the "mental" averagers

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Old August 26, 2009, 06:52 PM
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I'm been reading this off and on and i'm on the fence about buying it. I see the could degree temp drop however i don't don't know if its worth buying it. Anyone have any i7 results? I do realize if i wanted to i could probably apply this to my GTX260 and get some more lower temps but, again, is it worth 12$, lol.
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Old August 26, 2009, 10:00 PM
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Is it worth it? That's entirely subjective based on the individual. But what we try to convey to folks that goes mostly overlooked, is performance AND reliability AND stability AND safety, all in one package.

If you had a lawnmower that mowed better than any other...great! But what if every time you used it, it performed less and less like the first time and eventually just broke down? So great performance is....well great! But being able to consistently keep that level of performance and depend on it is another thing. If you have a compound that gives you some better or equal temperature performance and you know it will still perform as good, not break down and be stable years later, then you have more of a reason to re-examine if the effort and cost is worth it. For some, it's not and for others it absolutely is.

Like I said, completely subjective. Personally, even if performance was equal and not better, as a consumer, I would choose the one that adds reliability, stability and safety in addition to even the same performance. I mean, why not if it's not degrading performance? But when the hundreds of tests average to show noticeable improvement, it just sweetens the pot. Hardware is expensive, TIM is relatively cheap by comparison.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old August 26, 2009, 11:33 PM
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I've got one of the larger tubes and have used it on several installs now. I've been using the "pea shaped blob" method with it and haven't had a mount that I felt needed to be redone. To me that speaks volumes. I like the fact that I'm getting a consistant mount and will continue to use this over the other TIMs I currently have available.
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Old August 27, 2009, 12:14 AM
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I'm tempted to pick up a larger tube over whatever I have left in the small tube. I agree with SSwilson that a pea shaped blob is all you need. A good even coat of it spread over the IHS provided me with great temps after a day or so.
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Old August 27, 2009, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
I've got one of the larger tubes and have used it on several installs now. I've been using the "pea shaped blob" method with it and haven't had a mount that I felt needed to be redone. To me that speaks volumes. I like the fact that I'm getting a consistant mount and will continue to use this over the other TIMs I currently have available.
Funny you should mention that. One of the comments that I have repeatedly heard from "heavy users", is that they feel they get a consistent mount with the ICD. The first time you use it, it's certainly not what most are used to in the viscosity department. Small learning curve for sure, but once folks get the "feel" of using it, then things tend to work famously from that point on and we tend to have what I call "committed, impassioned customers." Plus, for the frequent hardware messer arounder, the fast results are worth their weight in....diamonds

I think what most folks tend to overlook or simply don't realize, is that it takes an enormous effort to develop TIM that increases thermal conductivity to the point where you will see even a 2C improvement over another top compound. 5 times better conductivity does not translate to 5 times lower temps...it just doesn't work that way. For a TIM to improve by just a few degrees means it is working very hard. There are TIMs that could potentially offer even better thermal performance than the top 3, but they tend to have more drawbacks then benefits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackquelegs View Post
I'm tempted to pick up a larger tube over whatever I have left in the small tube. I agree with SSwilson that a pea shaped blob is all you need. A good even coat of it spread over the IHS provided me with great temps after a day or so.
You have no idea how much of this stuff I go through personally! I've lathered just about every chip in sight and it's working just amazingly as a thermal pad substitute for delicate PWM work as well. We've had simply outstanding results in the notebook repair area and even game console repair.

Pea sized blob has worked best by and large for the vast majority of users. If you want even better temps, there is a demonstrated direct impact of how much pressure your heat sink can apply to the CPU. Intel safe max is 75PSI and will net you more gains, but if you have pressure on the light side, usually some time will help to improve temps. Of course, good contact is also key, but that's another story.

Just a heads up...I've done some testing for my own personal interests and I've found that ICD works EXTREMELY well with HDT coolers. I think it has to do with the spacing fins in between the heat pipes, but I pre-wet the base of the cooler with some ICD using the tip of the nozzle, filling in the small gaps between the heat pipes (doesn't take much). I sometimes apply a slight haze over the entire base of the cooler as the heat pipes usually aren't polished very well. Then, just use the blob method as usual. I have my QX9650 with a Gladiatory MAX running at 3910Ghz with max temps at about 60-62 in a 23C-24C room at about 1.34v using Prime95 ( I think I can bring the volts down, just haven't tried yet). Not bad for air! Plus, I think the Gladiator MAX is the wrong cooler for best performance on 775...Vendetta 2 would probably work better due to the size and heatpipe contact area. I'll try that next. Oh, and this is using the stock push pin mounting, so I know there's more to be gained when I switch over to a bolt thru kit.
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  #240 (permalink)  
Old September 18, 2009, 08:52 AM
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Testing is always relative, you can compare thermal compounds one on one which is commonly done or you can test against absolute limits for a reference point.

Notes On The Limits Of Thermal Grease Performance

The best possible performance for any thermal grease would be 100% heat transfer from the CPU to the heatsink – which is impossible. We have measured thermal performance for the best possible case – directly soldering the CPU to the heatsink. In this extreme case using a solder joint, the difference between the CPU and the heatsink was 0.5 degrees C.

Based on test results from 391 users among 11 PC Forums and IC tests, IC Diamond Thermal Compound showed 0.8 – 0.9 C difference between the CPU and heatsink – a difference of only 0.4 C compared to the solder joint.

User results showed other thermal compounds ranging from 1.1 C to 4.7 C difference less performance than IC Diamond, as shown on the performance graph, a difference due to the ingredients in the thermal compound used. Twenty years of thermal compound development have reduced the difference between using a solder joint to about 0.4 C. Further development may reduce this difference by a few tenths of a degree.



In our final market analysis before we launched ICD to market, IC tested the most competitive retail compounds and performed the solder test. These tests gave us the confidence to incorporate the giveaway's for forum testing/market introduction as we were confident ICD would transition well into real world user testing and that at best a competitor may match our performance but will never definitively outperform ICD. IC Diamond and has since been proved out so far with 400+ independent tests on 11 forums with experienced users nationally, internationally in a comprehensive sampling of hardware, software and environmental conditions.
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