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  #181 (permalink)  
Old April 20, 2009, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ICD7 View Post
Observational note:

That's a very unique spread pattern with the paste. The stripe down the middle is obviously much thicker than what would be considered a normal spread.

Looking at the construction of the heat sink along with the axis of the mounting system it seems to me while a probably a high pressure mount, the sink is bowing in the middle with higher contact pressure on either side.

Application is great no problems there.

Andrew
I should have taken a picture of the sink when I pulled it off, the pattern was the exact opposite of the chip ( heavy spread on either side where the aluminum is and a with a line of none in the middle where the copper is), the line of IC7 on the chip exactly matches the copper insert of the sink .
I'm going to remove it tomorrow and have a look at the pattern I achieved with the larger amount I used the second time.
I suspect I used more than was needed and will find paste beyond the spreader on the chip.
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  #182 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ICD7 View Post
To me it looks like the electronics are picking up the ambient fluctuations indirectly and/or directly from downstream heat flow changes

Andrew
I'm wondering about that myself, I used the thermometer from out on my porch to get my ambient temps ( go ahead and laugh, get it all out, you know you'll feel better )
Anyways, even running at %100 for only 20 minutes warms up my little den ( I cracked the window to keep it the same ) and I think I need a more accurate method of measuring and keeping the ambient temps constant. I'm sure 1 or 2c ambient is going to make a huge difference.
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  #183 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 09:54 AM
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So I was correct in my assumption that I applied a little too much IC7 the last time. Here's the pic


Here's the result on the HS, I believe the system of using 2 screws to tighten the HS is allowing it to rock as they are tightened and squish the thicker IC7 one way or the other. I'm thinking the single "pea" application method may not be the best for this type of (now obsolete) mount.




It was suggested earlier that the mount may be flexing the base of the HS. I don't think you would ever bend this thing by bolting it to a plastic P4 mobo clip. There are 2 cap screws and 2 #6 screws that run through the base that would have to flex as well.



Here's the pattern on the chip once again showing the corresponding copper strip on the HS.

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Last edited by 3 of 7; April 21, 2009 at 10:02 AM.
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  #184 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 3 of 7 View Post
I suspect I used more than was needed and will find paste beyond the spreader on the chip.
Using not enough will affect performance whereas an an overload will pretty much guarantee optimal performance assuming good contact and pressure. Excess just squishes out

Basic theory on thermal greases is that whatever the material you use you want the thinnest bond line thickness (BLT) possible, this is mostly determined by the particle size. The "curing" or breaking in process with thermal compounds is the compound under heat and pressure flows. While it is thick, it is a liquid and fills in the voids and gaps and eventually resolves down to the average particle size.

So for IC Diamond (and most other thermal greases) with optimal heat and pressure/contact end up with a thickness that is some fraction of the thickness you would see in a typical piece of copier paper. A good BLT combined with the material thermal conductivity determines your final overall performance.

Getting the right particle size mix along with fillers is a non trivial task and just throwing the smallest particles you can find in the mix will not get you where you want to go. Things like shape of the particles and the individual physical contact between them also come into play along with other factors. It takes some work.


Quote:
I'm wondering about that myself, I used the thermometer from out on my porch to get my ambient temps ( go ahead and laugh, get it all out, you know you'll feel better )
Anyways, even running at %100 for only 20 minutes warms up my little den ( I cracked the window to keep it the same ) and I think I need a more accurate method of measuring and keeping the ambient temps constant. I'm sure 1 or 2c ambient is going to make a huge difference. Today 01:55 AM
The thermometer is good enough and as is I am sure care was taken in readings and I expect no more than that and appreciate the time and effort expended by everybody tearing apart their PC's, mounting and remount sink's etc.

I probably have more invested in test equipment than everybody in this entire thread has invested in their PC's combined.

Getting 99% good data is crucial to what I do. But then again it is not real world results, these forum beta tests besides being a product promotion have been key in developing application method, contact and pressure criteria, refining our marketing message along with numerous nuanced observations by actual experienced users which has been invaluable.

Having fun with your PC's is 99% of what you people do and getting the last decimal point is inconsequential. Each single test is anecdotal including mine but what is fascinating to me is that when I adjust for power on selected data samples the forum averaging comes to within a couple of tenths of a degree of what I see with all my fancy equipment. Do not obsess about the ambient's as I was just throwing out a possible explanation for data fluctuations



I was a little skeptical of the group when Nademon first recommended it for the giveaway but it has proved out to be the most professional, high energy out of the 9 or ten I have done so far.

again thanks all

Andrew
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  #185 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
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I was a little skeptical of the group when Nademon first recommended it for the giveaway but it has proved out to be the most professional, high energy out of the 9 or ten I have done so far.
I'm happy we proved you wrong.
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  #186 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 11:40 AM
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Yeah HWC! I'm new around here but I'm constantly amazed with the helpful and professional manner in which the group conducts itself and I'm glad that even professional industry folks like Andrew can see that. I've recieved my ICD7 last week and I'm waiting for my quad core to try it out. I've found this thread very educational and I can't wait to try out the various application methods to see which one works best for me.
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  #187 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 12:38 PM
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3 of 7 - post 183

Your point is understood and you are correct on that I believe. Taking another look, if there was was flex it would be highly coincidental that it would be only in the copper area.

So why only in the copper area is it different? Thermal Expansion Coefficients between the copper and aluminum?

or assuming no difference in surface quality between the aluminum and copper could it be the thermal gradient across the sink under load affects how the paste adheres when it is separated? Very interesting effect,at least to me anyway.

The application looks fine to me, it may be the camera angle but the application is slightly off center hence the tendency of the paste would be to flow to the closest edge or path of least resistance.

Likely that the exposed area was not making contact with the sink/IHS separated by at least the particle thickness in that one area. Not sure whether it would make that much difference though in thermal result as the center and top section of the IHS are well covered.
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  #188 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 02:48 PM
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so i was wandering what my application of the ic7 looked like 2 underneath the heatsink 2

i was adding a fan anyway so i decided 2 remove the heatsink and take a look,and it looks just like 3 of 7s,on the heatsink and cpu/i get the thick lines on the outside 2

i was thinkin mabe i didnt apply even mounting presser when i mounted it

could that b y it forms on the outside like this?

my heatsink is the tr xtreme 120
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Last edited by hightest; August 2, 2009 at 05:46 PM.
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  #189 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 03:19 PM
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so i was wandering what my application of the ic7 looked like 2 underneath the heatsink 2

Quote:
i was adding a fan anyway so i decided 2 remove the heatsink and take a look,and it looks just like 3 of 7s,on the heatsink and cpu/i get the thick lines on the outside 2

i was thinkin mabe i didnt apply even mounting presser when i mounted it

could that b y it forms on the outside like this?
If you look at both the sink and IHS on center it looks like you a thin coat on center which is what it is supposed to look like optimally in terms of paste thickness. However the thick coat surrounds the center "island" on both sink and IHS looks a little thick. Hard to tell from the pictures but it appears the IHS has a slight bubble on center.

This is a common IHS contact pattern and I have several samples of it from different forums. All that were lapped benefited by it.




If that is the case I would be concerned that the heat pipes outside the high contact area might not be utilized fully having to pump the heat through a thicker layer of compound. Might be worth a couple of degress to lap the IHS so it has full sink contact at that point you would have paste squishing out all 4 sides.



3 of 7 seems to have a flat contact surface kind of the same effect but for different reasons

Last edited by ICD7; April 21, 2009 at 05:53 PM.
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  #190 (permalink)  
Old April 21, 2009, 03:21 PM
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Has anybody looked into the effect of the Swiftech GT "Bow"?

edit: Sorry, guess I should have elaborated a bit.... I'm wondering if anybody had tried both with the bow and without the bow.... It would seem to me that the bow would prevent an even distribution of pressure across the contact point.
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