Go Back   Hardware Canucks > SOFTWARE > O/S's, Drivers & General Software

    
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 03:51 AM
ShinraCorp's Avatar
MVP
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Quebec City
Posts: 441

My System Specs

Default

I bring you good news... How to Make Windows 8 Look and Feel Like Windows 7

If you're willing to spend 11$ around then you can make it truely look like Win7
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 06:46 AM
sswilson's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 14,417

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars View Post
Is that actually the default in Win8? I don't have any Win8 systems currently, but the default in Server2012 is to shutdown when the power button is pushed.



Well, IMO, most of the complaints about Win8 are baseless and mostly amount to "I don't like change", so it's not that MS isn't good at listening, it's that they're good at ignoring complaints that don't matter.

They did make some late changes based on the previews, the early previews didn't have sticky corners, making all the corner actions basically impossible on multi-monitor setups - they're now improved to the point where they're better than Win7.
Sorry but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. IMO the changes they made to the desktop were not positive ones which were driven not by feedback from their user base but instead by a design philosophy centered on uniformity between completely different platforms (desktop vrs tablet). I'd point to the overwhelming use of third party desktop / start button apps as proof that MS didn't respond to the needs /wishes of their customer base.

If 50%+ of your customer base is modding your most recent product so that it looks/feels like your previous product(s) then you haven't made a case for the new look/feel being an improvement.

I'll admit that I pulled the 50% figure out of my rear end, but if anything, based on what we're hearing /seeing on this forum the number is probably much higher.
__________________
MSI Z87I Gaming AC / i5 4670K / 2X 4G Gskill 1866 DDR3 / XFX XTR 750 / EVGA GTX 680 SC+ 2GB / Intel DC S3700 200G / random 160G Sata HDD
Inwin 904 / Swiftech MCP655-b / Alphacool NexXxos XT45 120 Rad / 2X Scythe GT AP-15 / EK Supreme HF / Dell UltraSharp U2412M

Asrock AM1H-ITX / AM1 Athlon 5350 / 2X4G Gskill PC3-14900 / Intel 6235 Wi-Fi / 90W Targus Power Brick / 320G Seagate Momentus / Mini-Box M350 / 1X 22" Dell IPS / 1X 22" HP
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 02:29 PM
ipaine's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
F@H
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 2,054

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars View Post
Well, IMO, most of the complaints about Win8 are baseless and mostly amount to "I don't like change", so it's not that MS isn't good at listening, it's that they're good at ignoring complaints that don't matter.
It is not a matter of not liking change. Come on most of us have moved to Windows 7 from XP and that was change. There is a big difference in change for the better and change for the worse. Considering what I would venture to say is about 90-95% out of every person I know through work and my personal life and on these boards does not plan on moving any time soon. This is not due to change but due to a change for the worse. Oh and pretty much ever single one that is using Windows 8 has the third party tools to make it more like Windows 7.

The thing is just like sswilson said if your customers are modding the product out of the box for basic functionality then you are not doing something right. And lets face it this OS has nothing to do with making a better OS, it is just a way to get another app store across all platforms as that is where MS believes they want to make their money.
__________________
"Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize you're wrong."


Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 04:38 PM
MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 493
Default

The thing is, there are almost no use cases where Win8 performs worse than Win7.

I really doubt as many people as you guys think are using start menu replacements in Win8:

World population: 7 billion
Internet users: 35%, 2.45 billion
Windows 8 use: ~2.5%, 61 million
Classic Shell has ~2 million downloads

In 2009, Firefox had 1 billion downloads
Estimate 2 billion internet users with Firefox-compatible devices in 2009
Firefox usage share of ~30%, indicating .6 users per download.

Assuming users per downloads being similar between classic shell and firefox, you get a usage share of classic shell around 2%. Even if you assume an order of magnitude more usage through Start8, Samsung's menuthing, etc., you're still only getting up to 20% or so of users.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 06:00 PM
sswilson's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 14,417

My System Specs

Default

where are you getting your win8 usage figures? So far I haven't seen any official in use figures, only licenses sold which includes both bulk sales of OS for unsold OEM hardware as well as sales which have been returned. Unless I've missed something, MS has been very tight lipped WRT how many unique win8 licenses are in actual use.

Even if your numbers are correct, 20% is still a significant portion of their userbase, and it's safe to assume that those 20% are strongly weighted towards folks who actually use the OS for something other than functions that can just as easily be carried out by a smart phone.
__________________
MSI Z87I Gaming AC / i5 4670K / 2X 4G Gskill 1866 DDR3 / XFX XTR 750 / EVGA GTX 680 SC+ 2GB / Intel DC S3700 200G / random 160G Sata HDD
Inwin 904 / Swiftech MCP655-b / Alphacool NexXxos XT45 120 Rad / 2X Scythe GT AP-15 / EK Supreme HF / Dell UltraSharp U2412M

Asrock AM1H-ITX / AM1 Athlon 5350 / 2X4G Gskill PC3-14900 / Intel 6235 Wi-Fi / 90W Targus Power Brick / 320G Seagate Momentus / Mini-Box M350 / 1X 22" Dell IPS / 1X 22" HP
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 07:00 PM
MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 493
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
where are you getting your win8 usage figures? So far I haven't seen any official in use figures, only licenses sold which includes both bulk sales of OS for unsold OEM hardware as well as sales which have been returned. Unless I've missed something, MS has been very tight lipped WRT how many unique win8 licenses are in actual use.

Even if your numbers are correct, 20% is still a significant portion of their userbase, and it's safe to assume that those 20% are strongly weighted towards folks who actually use the OS for something other than functions that can just as easily be carried out by a smart phone.
Usage numbers from here: Usage share of operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If my numbers are correct (and I don't see how they're not, I doubt the rest of the start menu replacements combined make up the usage share of classic shell), the proportion of people using a start menu replacement is around 2-5%. The 20% figure represents what I would consider a fantastic failure of my calculations and assumptions.

My point is really that anecdotal evidence from people on here isn't particularly valuable in determining usage share numbers of computer things - in people I interact with daily, I see a Windows/Mac OS/Linux split of about 30/50/20, when it's actually around 90/8/2 in the world at large.

I don't think the assumption about power users WRT the start menu is at all fair. I consider myself a pretty extreme power user, and the start menu and start screen function exactly the same for me - I hit the Windows key, type a few letters, then hit enter. IMO the start menu and start screen are both equally poor launchers, not even in the same league as Alfred or Quicksilver.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 07:49 PM
AkG's Avatar
AkG AkG is offline
Hardware Canucks Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,339
Default

Umm....yeah. That is so inaccurate that even the wiki page states it has to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Also you taking an estimate of an estimate or an estimate (or what we all like to call a Wild Ass Guess). Then only using one of the numerous options people use as an alternative. So lets also make a couple estimates. I can think of atleast 10 or more alternatives to classic shell. So by my estimate of an estimate of estimate thats 200% of windows 8 users dont like it. Aint statistics grand. :P

Seriously though, waving concerns away as 'people dont like change' is very fanboish. People like change when it IMPROVES their experience. The slow uptake of Window 8 (I refuse to call it WindowS as there is no 'windows' allowed in metro UI!) show that consumers dont think it is an improvement. Its a fugly touchscreen interface that was bolted on to a windows 3'esque desktop. Its a Kludge.
__________________
"If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe." -JR

“if your opponent has a conscience, then follow Gandhi. But if you enemy has no conscience, like Hitler, then follow Bonhoeffer.” - Dr. MLK jr
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 07:55 PM
MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 493
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Umm....yeah. That is so inaccurate that even the wiki page states it has to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Also you taking an estimate of an estimate or an estimate (or what we all like to call a Wild Ass Guess). Then only using one of the numerous options people use as an alternative. So lets also make a couple estimates. I can think of atleast 10 or more alternatives to classic shell. So by my estimate of an estimate of estimate thats 200% of windows 8 users dont like it. Aint statistics grand. :P
I provided good faith numbers with sources to back them up, if you don't want to respond in kind, I can't really help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Seriously though, waving concerns away as 'people dont like change' is very fanboish.
I don't own a Windows 8 PC, and my primary workstation runs Mac OS, so "fanboyish" hardly makes sense.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 08:09 PM
AkG's Avatar
AkG AkG is offline
Hardware Canucks Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,339
Default

No your 'good faith numbers' are based on Wikipedia numbers. That you then make estimates based on more estimates. Then you take hard numbers for the 'opposition' but exclude all other options. That is the essence of modern day sophistry.

If you dont know the difference between real information and wikipedia, well I can't really help you. If you cant understand that taking an estimate of an estimate and spouting it as fact is incorrect, well I cant really help you.

Rather than argue semantics, here I will educate you. MS is not handing out any information on usage. Period. Unlike with Windows 7 they are being tight lipped BUT by all accounts Window 8 is lagging behind even Vista in acceptance & conversion. This is not my opinion but industry analysts opinions. IE its not a fact but S.W.A.G by experts in the field and is as close to facts as we will get until Redmond releases numbers.

You like Window 8...good for you. God bless. But what in the world does that have to do with the OP's question? Why turn this thread in to a shit flinging contest. How does how does going (to paraphrase you) "well you must be thick to want to turn the 1337 W8 experience in to that outdated windows 7 experience." HELP the OP in his quest to make Window 8 'work' for him?

If I am incorrect and you are actually trying to HELP the OP...show me where I am wrong with your opinion. As all I have seen is YOU going "most of the complaints about Win8 are baseless and mostly amount to "I don't like change", so it's not that MS isn't good at listening, it's that they're good at ignoring complaints that don't matter." OR are you just trying to pick up for MS and their failing Window 8?...which by your own admission you dont even use. How bad is it when the proponents wont even use it? :)~

Edit:
Look Im not trying to fight with you. Im not trying to crap all over your opinion. Seriously. You like. It reminds you of Apple OSX. Great. BUT how about some actual input to the question at hand.
__________________
"If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe." -JR

“if your opponent has a conscience, then follow Gandhi. But if you enemy has no conscience, like Hitler, then follow Bonhoeffer.” - Dr. MLK jr

Last edited by AkG; March 29, 2013 at 08:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old March 29, 2013, 08:28 PM
MVP
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Calgary
Posts: 493
Default

Wikipedia numbers are from Net Market Share, StatCounter and W3Counter - these are the commonly accepted sources when looking at OS market shares. These numbers show than Win8 is behind Vista in marketshare, and I realize MS doesn't show usage numbers, hence why these are the best available numbers. If you have ideas on how to get better numbers, I'd be interested to hear them, but barring that, I don't see any reason to suspect the numbers I gave are more likely to be too high or too low. All my estimates were purposely made pretty conservatively to give the benefit of doubt to potentially more people using a start menu replacement.

I don't really have much to add to the question at hand, the OP asked how to make Windows 8 work like Windows 7... and IMO, it already works pretty much like Windows 7 once you set useful programs to open file types by default.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GTX 570 Make Rocyaic Video Cards 14 July 5, 2011 05:12 PM
Buy it or make it? eltiti55555 New Builds 26 June 29, 2011 06:29 PM
cant make to 4gb hohohee RAM 17 July 17, 2010 10:43 AM
How do you make a PVR? BrianHanna HTPC Systems & Software 6 December 14, 2009 11:53 PM
Can i make something out of this? CactusJoe New Builds 17 November 7, 2008 04:46 PM