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Old August 3, 2011, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SugarJ View Post
Bullshit. I caught my oldest boy more than a couple times on sites he shouldn't have been on, even thought the computer was in the kitchen and I checked on him regularly. I didn't catch it until I started checking his browsing history, and then logging his account with a firewall.

Don't turn this into a privacy debate, in a world full of internet predators I don't think kids get privacy on their parent's computers.
It's not about privacy, it's about the respect and understanding that typically comes with it. Can't honestly expect a kid to learn about respect and understanding when you aren't showing it to them. Even if they're obedient and listen to you they'll probably end up like TSA security, they know how to look for liquids but have no clue how to look for a bomb. You can't protect your kids forever, might as well teach them to protect themselves and let them get into trouble while you're still around to bail them out.

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Accessing warez and porn sites cost my oldest 3 months without a computer the first time, and 6 months the second time a year or so later. He learned the lesson after that.
Which lesson did he learn? "It's ok to break dad's rules but don't get caught by him," or "Dad's still smarter than you, so get smarter and learn to get around the firewall." It could be anything, but my guess would be "Don't do it again." Do what again? Humans are a little different from dogs, we relate consequences to actions just like dogs, but unfortunately we have much broader dimensions of thought and may not necessarily relate the intended consequence to the intended action.

I'm not saying you shouldn't punish your kids, but you should seriously talk to your kid and understand why he's done it on more than one occasion. If you really got your message across, chances are he would've fessed up the second time before you caught him. Keep your bases covered before you lay down the law, with all the modern neural stimulation kids get exposed to these days, they're probably getting smarter.

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Originally Posted by Arinoth View Post
I would think a good alternative would be to just limit network access to certain applications/programs and websites, requiring them to either come see you if they want a site unblocked/accessible so you can take a glance at it first to make sure its alright. Technically speaking they do this at the workplace and at college/universities with their own networks, monitoring and blocking content that is not appropriate for the workplace/school.
I would only consider this until your daughter reaches a certain level of maturity, and with her fully knowing that you're doing so.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old August 3, 2011, 05:14 PM
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very well put ilya...+1
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Old August 3, 2011, 06:25 PM
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Heh, when I was younger I had installed a keylogger for a little while to get the password needed to dial into our ISP and use the internet. <_< >_>
I do not remember how long it took but eventually they figured out that I was getting online at night and stuff(the speaker had previously been muted so that was not what gave me away). When they asked about it I just told them that I had used a keylogger. I do not recall being punished though, I think they just told me that I should not do things like that.

I miss those old operating systems, modern ones just do not have the same charm. :/
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Old August 3, 2011, 07:46 PM
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have the privacy debate in the social forum (off topic), the man has a technical question.

For my kids I have them on a separate sub-net, they surf through a transparent proxy that has blacklisting for certain sites any parent would not want their kids looking at; on purpose or by accident.

PFsense on a old first gen Pentium 4, everything you need is right in the pfsense web based configuration page.
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Old August 3, 2011, 08:05 PM
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I agree with SugarJ, however I'm less concerned with what he'll do on the net vs what he'll do out in the world...

I'm not going to let on what it is that I'm doing, but I'm sure as hell not going to be BLIND as to what is happening.

I'm also not completely sure what I'm going to do yet, but likely a domain setup with something like a pfsense firewall and proxies.
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Old August 3, 2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilya View Post
It's not about privacy, it's about the respect and understanding that typically comes with it. Can't honestly expect a kid to learn about respect and understanding when you aren't showing it to them. Even if they're obedient and listen to you they'll probably end up like TSA security, they know how to look for liquids but have no clue how to look for a bomb. You can't protect your kids forever, might as well teach them to protect themselves and let them get into trouble while you're still around to bail them out.

Which lesson did he learn? "It's ok to break dad's rules but don't get caught by him," or "Dad's still smarter than you, so get smarter and learn to get around the firewall." It could be anything, but my guess would be "Don't do it again." Do what again? Humans are a little different from dogs, we relate consequences to actions just like dogs, but unfortunately we have much broader dimensions of thought and may not necessarily relate the intended consequence to the intended action.

I'm not saying you shouldn't punish your kids, but you should seriously talk to your kid and understand why he's done it on more than one occasion. If you really got your message across, chances are he would've fessed up the second time before you caught him. Keep your bases covered before you lay down the law, with all the modern neural stimulation kids get exposed to these days, they're probably getting smarter.
You're welcome to your opinion. I know what worked with my son, who is now 21 and out on his own. I told him the rules before he started using the computer, and that I would be checking on him. I feel that I have the right to know what ANYONE who uses my computer and my ISP is doing. When his web browsing history started "disappearing", it was obvious he was visiting places he wasn't allowed to. I then set up a logging firewall to prove it. He thought he had outsmarted me the 2nd time, and couldn't be caught, not realizing that I could remotely copy the log before he altered it. Both times I explained my reasons why I had the rules (i.e. I didn't want legal hassles for pirating games, and seeing boobs in a movie is a lot different than most pr0n sites out there), and I think he understood my reasons better the 2nd time, or at least paid more attention to the consequences. If he managed to outsmart me after that, he was very good at it because I never caught him and he hasn't admitted it yet. Regardless, he is now a well adjusted young man who shows respect to his elders in public, drinks rarely and doesn't do drugs, and has a very pretty girlfriend to keep him busy when he's not at work or university. I hope that my other kids will show the same traits as they grow up.

TLDR version, keep the computer in a public place, and tell your kids you will be checking on them

edit: and use a filter as suggested to keep them from the deeper darker places around the net.
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Old August 3, 2011, 08:14 PM
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I can't believe you guys are actually saying things like "you should trust them" ,"have faith in them"... they are twelve year olds... they are very innocent still. If it were me I would totally lookup their browsing history and their chat logs, hell... not necessary only to spy on them, but if you find them doing something strange...you can take action and teach them the proper way of dealing with that.

There is a lot of bad things happening out there when you have the power, at home, to change 90% of them.
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Old August 4, 2011, 05:58 AM
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A lot of cops have managed to get to houses of blissfully unaware parents because they started having converstaions over chat that could lead predators their way.

I have many friends in Metro and Peel Police who have stories...its better to be proactive (not overtly all the time) than take the risk. Life is always a game and risk to make it as long as we can, but its better to give us more chances than less...I would at this point say a Filter to block out things like public chat sites, and pr0n would suffice.

Ilya, it isn't about trust.
We don't put covers on outlets, keep safe toys in the house, and lock up what is dangerous because we don't trust our children. Its because many time, they just don't know better.

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Old August 4, 2011, 07:07 AM
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It's always easier to prevent something rather than the cleanup afterwards.
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Old August 4, 2011, 08:53 AM
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along with Keylogging software I would suggest that if you have a router to set it up so that at a certian time the IP address of her PC or laptop will turn off .
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