Go Back   Hardware Canucks > SOFTWARE > O/S's, Drivers & General Software

    
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 11:48 AM
AkG's Avatar
AkG AkG is offline
Hardware Canucks Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,332
Default

YOU are the one complaining about a ten year old OS not getting ...GASP!.... a non essential software upgrade. You are the one who said that nix support is better. You are the one who has yet to back that claim up. You are the one who said nix isnt into planned obsolences. You are the also the one who is now getting upset when someone says FINE try and USE that ten year old nix OS. So srrsly what exactly is your problem? Is it MS? Is it their success? It is nix's lack of success? Please rant and froth some more. I'll get the popcorn.

As for me and nix. Personally I use FreeNAS for my homebrew NAS. Its fast, stable and works. Yet you dont see me bashing MS. Funny how some peeps can use what works for a given situation without caring about politics. Might want to try it.
__________________
"If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe." -JR

“if your opponent has a conscience, then follow Gandhi. But if you enemy has no conscience, like Hitler, then follow Bonhoeffer.” - Dr. MLK jr
  #42 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 11:53 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
YOU are the one complaining about a ten year old OS not getting ...GASP!.... a non essential software upgrade. You are the one who said that nix support is better. You are the one who has yet to back that claim up. You are the one who said nix isnt into planned obsolences. You are the also the one who is now getting upset when someone says FINE try and USE that ten year old nix OS. So srrsly what exactly is your problem? Is it MS? Is it their success? It is nix's lack of success? Please rant and froth some more. I'll get the popcorn.
MS is phasing out XP even though 50%+ of the market use it and they can't JUST UPGRADE. Correct? They have to buy Windows 7. Hello?!?

Linux has upgrades and you just use the package system, whatever it is. You're not normally re-installing although some people do but for the most part, they're not buying a new OS or changing to an entirely new one. The support is only if you pay and many get support from OS-specific forums. How are the Windows forums?

Many businesses were using IE for some reason so now they have to use an older/outdated version or switch operating systems or browsers. Anyway, I already provided these points and if you don't buy them or ignore them, that's fine. I am done my rant. Cheers.

P.S. Good choice. I like BSD as well as 'Nix. Although, Nix can do the same thing.

Last edited by technix; September 29, 2010 at 12:00 PM.
  #43 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 12:09 PM
AkG's Avatar
AkG AkG is offline
Hardware Canucks Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,332
Default

Lol.

So on the one hand you get crappy support or told to "RTFM" or have to pay for support. On the other you have ....HWC and a billion other places where peeps will help you for free OR you can phone MS and pay (though MS does have limited free phone support on some things as well).

Once again you are trying to claim that say Fedora 2 can be UPDATED to the same as the latest Fedora? I doubt that. In fact fedora FAQ refutes that:
"Q: I don't want all of the above, just a quick Answer or Security Update or bug fixed or newer package update on my End of Life release.
A: Sorry, fedora is a fast moving distribution. Please upgrade to a supported release."


XP is now TWO full generations removed from their latest OS...yet they are still supporting it. Comp and contrast with Nix tell peeps that they are SOL after only a couple years.
So once again. Please show prof of MS doing things worse than nix on the support front.

Many business are still using IE 6 becuase they purchases CUSTOM INHOUSE software that NEEDS IE6. Just like some companies are offering an arm and leg for certain programmer skills...becuase their custom INHOUSE software or hardware needs it...some of which sure as hell isnt MS based!

If thats your rant...it was pretty sad. Please try again when you can at least back some of it with facts.
__________________
"If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe." -JR

“if your opponent has a conscience, then follow Gandhi. But if you enemy has no conscience, like Hitler, then follow Bonhoeffer.” - Dr. MLK jr
  #44 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 12:28 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Lol.

So on the one hand you get crappy support or told to "RTFM" or have to pay for support. On the other you have ....HWC and a billion other places where peeps will help you for free OR you can phone MS and pay (though MS does have limited free phone support on some things as well).

Once again you are trying to claim that say Fedora 2 can be UPDATED to the same as the latest Fedora? I doubt that. In fact fedora FAQ refutes that:
"Q: I don't want all of the above, just a quick Answer or Security Update or bug fixed or newer package update on my End of Life release.
A: Sorry, fedora is a fast moving distribution. Please upgrade to a supported release."


XP is now TWO full generations removed from their latest OS...yet they are still supporting it. Comp and contrast with Nix tell peeps that they are SOL after only a couple years.
So once again. Please show prof of MS doing things worse than nix on the support front.

Many business are still using IE 6 becuase they purchases CUSTOM INHOUSE software that NEEDS IE6. Just like some companies are offering an arm and leg for certain programmer skills...becuase their custom INHOUSE software or hardware needs it...some of which sure as hell isnt MS based!

If thats your rant...it was pretty sad. Please try again when you can at least back some of it with facts.
XP SP3 was in April '08. Fedora 9 would be the comparable Fedora OS at that time. It may or may not upgrade well so yes, the general consensus is a new install. Yet, the same software packages will work at updated versions.

Also, you're comparing an OS you have to pay for that is at a market share way more than Nix. Yet, you ignore this. LOL! So, you're upgrading an OS at $100 or more a pop and criticizing Nix at the same time?!? Are you part of a comedy team yet?!?
  #45 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 01:09 PM
m1dget's Avatar
Allstar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Terrebonne, Qc
Posts: 707

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by enaberif View Post
Saying Win7 is the best is a load of shit.

I've been using Win7 and it has so many quirks that I just simply do not like.

Will I run XP on this laptop? No.

But I will be throwing Server 2k8 R2 on it the second I do have a chance.

And besides Internet Explorer is crap.
Awesome
__________________
"NIX is a classic example of security through obscurity because there is no real monetary reward for crackers and hackers to break Linix" -AkG
  #46 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 01:27 PM
AkG's Avatar
AkG AkG is offline
Hardware Canucks Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by technix View Post
XP SP3 was in April '08. Fedora 9 would be the comparable Fedora OS at that time. It may or may not upgrade well so yes, the general consensus is a new install. Yet, the same software packages will work at updated versions.

Also, you're comparing an OS you have to pay for that is at a market share way more than Nix. Yet, you ignore this. LOL! So, you're upgrading an OS at $100 or more a pop and criticizing Nix at the same time?!? Are you part of a comedy team yet?!?
Nope XP was NOT released in 2008. A FREE service pack was released in 2008. You really are obtuse or grasping at straws on that one. Once again i will ask you: can you get ANY essential upgrades for say fedora 2 (or other nix variants released around the same as XP) to upgrade it? Its been END OF LIFE'd. Thus no support. XP still has full support. IF you have an original XP software install CD you can download and apply SP3 to it and get all the additions to it. Hell YOUR example of Fedora 9 isnt supported anymore either!

What does market share have to do with it? Either a company stands behind their product and supports it for more than the half-life of a lightbulb or they dont. Nix has planned obsolesce which is worse than MS's. Not a hard concept. Really. This is 1+1 = 2 level logic. Yet by your fuzy math MS is more evil even though they are standing behind their product BETTER than your beloved nix.

Wanna try again? I still got the popcorn, though your antics are becoming more sad than anything now.
__________________
"If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe." -JR

“if your opponent has a conscience, then follow Gandhi. But if you enemy has no conscience, like Hitler, then follow Bonhoeffer.” - Dr. MLK jr
  #47 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 02:03 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Nope XP was NOT released in 2008. A FREE service pack was released in 2008. You really are obtuse or grasping at straws on that one. Once again i will ask you: can you get ANY essential upgrades for say fedora 2 (or other nix variants released around the same as XP) to upgrade it? Its been END OF LIFE'd. Thus no support. XP still has full support. IF you have an original XP software install CD you can download and apply SP3 to it and get all the additions to it. Hell YOUR example of Fedora 9 isnt supported anymore either!

What does market share have to do with it? Either a company stands behind their product and supports it for more than the half-life of a lightbulb or they dont. Nix has planned obsolesce which is worse than MS's. Not a hard concept. Really. This is 1+1 = 2 level logic. Yet by your fuzy math MS is more evil even though they are standing behind their product BETTER than your beloved nix.

Wanna try again? I still got the popcorn, though your antics are becoming more sad than anything now.
Try what again?

You seem thick as you can't understand that MS charges for upgrades but Nix, for the most part, DOESN'T. So, who gives a %&$# if Red Hat or Fedora isn't supporting Fedora 2! NO ONE IS USING IT. Over 50% of the market is using XP. MS charges to use much of its software. They stop support on certain software that will effect business and thus, seem to try and motivate for purchasing an upgrade which is actually a new OS. That doesn't generally happen in Linux. But, since you want to make this inane comparison, XP/Windows software was purchased by companies and so they expect support. The people who will be unhappy won't be me.

Fedora aren't obligated to support free software/OS but there are alternatives including free support via specific forums. So, saying, 'a-ha', Fedora 2 is EOL and not supported is a ridiculous attempt at grasping for straws. How is a plan to upgrade and update the OS and packages for free without obstacles to certain programs worse than MS deciding to end support or operation of certain software for one of their operating systems (which, in some cases may force a costly upgrade or new OS purchase)?

Anyway, this thread wasn't about this but you are turning it into a argument which will have no end since you don't acknowledge when you're wrong or certain points. It doesn't matter if any distro reaches EOL or obsolescence because the design is not costing anyone. It's not a major financial penalty and the change is not dramatic or causing problems to the users. MS, by design, makes dramatic changes and then charges the user if they want to keep using an OS that they must buy the new one (in order to have support).
  #48 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 02:20 PM
AkG's Avatar
AkG AkG is offline
Hardware Canucks Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,332
Default

AH so your prob is you buy something ten freakin years ago it should work FOREVER? What software company does that?

Lets change your argument from MS to Sony and see if it makes any more sense:
Can you play PS 3 games on a PS 1? Nope. Those evil SOBs! They are forcing peeps to upgrade so that they can play NEW games on new hardware that wasnt even designed when the PS 1 was released! How evilllllll of them!

Nope. Still sounds retarded.

The intial cost of software is the least expensive part of any business's operating budget. Same goes for most consumers. In return for a hundred bucks (actually a lot less at the busniess level but lets keep this simple) they got nearly a decade of FULL support. Yeah thats a real raw deal! How foolish of me we should all swap over to the latest nix that will be obsolete BY DESIGN within 3 years. And considering most "joe sixpacks" keep their systems for more than 3years THAT sounds like peeps who use nix will get everything it is worth from it.

Either a company supports their product for a reasonable amount of time...or they dont. The cost of the software is irrelevant. IF that company is still producing software they should support it. Saying XYZ 3rd party forums are as good as MS's support is as foolish as the rest of your argument.
__________________
"If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the universe." -JR

“if your opponent has a conscience, then follow Gandhi. But if you enemy has no conscience, like Hitler, then follow Bonhoeffer.” - Dr. MLK jr
  #49 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 02:22 PM
Top Prospect
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by technix View Post
So, why so defensive if I post something that puts MS in a negative light or if I bash them when it's deserved?
Not sure why you would consider it as negative, new versions of applications not working on older versions of OS is not unusual in software business. If you have problem with MSFT not supporting XP with IE9, you're going to have problem with lots of software vendors. If we compare apple to apple... more precisely Apple to MSFT... , what's the oldest version of OSX that the latest version of Safari supports? Does it go all the way back to the 2002 version of OSX?

MSFT have very clearly laid out lifecycle policies for its OS, 10 years (from date of launch) for business products, 5 years for consumer products. Support often get extended if there's still significant user base, e.g. Win98se (3 years added), or if new version was delayed, e.g., XP Home, which will be supported until 2014.

I went through EOL with NT4, Win98se and W2K, by the time an OS gets to 7+ year, with the advances in HW and technologies in general, it's usually time to move on to something newer.
__________________
iK ©
  #50 (permalink)  
Old September 29, 2010, 02:54 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCCV44.2223 View Post
Not sure why you would consider it as negative, new versions of applications not working on older versions of OS is not unusual in software business. If you have problem with MSFT not supporting XP with IE9, you're going to have problem with lots of software vendors. If we compare apple to apple... more precisely Apple to MSFT... , what's the oldest version of OSX that the latest version of Safari supports? Does it go all the way back to the 2002 version of OSX?

MSFT have very clearly laid out lifecycle policies for its OS, 10 years (from date of launch) for business products, 5 years for consumer products. Support often get extended if there's still significant user base, e.g. Win98se (3 years added), or if new version was delayed, e.g., XP Home, which will be supported until 2014.

I went through EOL with NT4, Win98se and W2K, by the time an OS gets to 7+ year, with the advances in HW and technologies in general, it's usually time to move on to something newer.
This started out as an intentional change in IE9 that won't work anymore in XP. Yet other browsers don't have this change or at least not yet. Let's stick to what we know.

As for the updates and upgrades in operating systems. Minor changes in Windows software usually means a very brand new edition of software which you have to pay for. MS Office? Same as other examples of Windows software. Sure, the cycle might be 7 to 10 yrs but with that, you get certain programs all of a suddent being obsolete with no recourse but to buy a brand new software or even OS package. I guess in some people's minds, this is no big deal but let the business owners decide that.

Linux is always changing and they deal with a way smaller development group than MS and the changes are constant and many. There's no charge for every change or cycle. To say, 3 yrs and then you're obsolete and compare it to the MS model and say it's inferior is ridiculous. But, hey, there's no substitute for poor logic.

With your MS OS packages that became obsolete, you had to buy new systems and software because likely, the old software doesn't run as well with the new OS and vice versa. Also, you only get one install for one computer and how many had to call MS to sort out activation issues. The support might be longer but you get other penalties and issues. The cycle that Linux devs use doesn't seem to be as bad when the changes are major but you don't incur a cost every time there's a change. It becomes obsolete because people have moved on to a much more significant change and they can just upgrade or re-install. Some people stay with the same OS for years past release but there is no concern about certain software programs suddenly not working or being supported. Just upgrade to the latest version. But, if you think that's a problem or inferior, go ahead, because Linux users aren't complaining.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is my soundcard killing me? GeezerHT Audio 11 April 27, 2010 05:51 PM
vmware killing my gpu PPD? BT! HardwareCanucks F@H Team 8 September 7, 2009 09:32 AM
Killing floor issue ToXic Troubleshooting 9 August 31, 2009 05:01 PM
Um, did they ban weed killing chemicals? cadaveca Off Topic 34 May 28, 2009 04:26 AM
Killing Floor cmac79 Gaming 10 May 17, 2009 09:00 AM