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  #21 (permalink)  
Old May 24, 2010, 10:59 AM
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Default personal USE ..... is against the EULA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arinoth View Post
You are reading this out of context. What Pelt is saying is for personal use which is what Technet is for. He is not talking about selling the extra keys to people, just some of the stuff he will receive in it and would be able to install/run on other machines he may have (including if he maintains his parents). His post is not encouraging illegal activities and therefore is not deemed an infraction
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Actually its not. What Pelt is saying is EXACTLY what technet was setup for. Technet is personal use only. BUT it is unlimited use on your own personal systems. MS wants enthusiasts be they IT pros or hobbyists to use, know and like MS products. Once again recomding that someone else get technet for their own kit is NOT illegal. SELLING your keys IS illegal. Buying $10 key off fleabay could also be considered illegal. BUYING a subscription to a legal service is NOT illegal.
Technet as a single user license to evaluate Microsoft products in a non productive environment by IT Professionals to determine the suitability in their environment in order to better determine which products to acquire (properly) for implementation isn't difficult to comprehend.
Suggesting/condoning that one use the subscription as a means of acquiring MS products on the cheap for USE in one's home enviroment by MULTIPLE users for the lifespan of the product in order to avoid purchasing Microsoft's products in accordance with their EULAs is clearly an illegal activity.
Yes, there are lots of people in many forums with the same self justification in twisting the intent of the program. Choosing to misinterpret, construe, and ignore the key words of the EULA to suit oneself and knowing full well Microsoft isn't going to find/sue one doesn't make it legal.

The following are other opinions to back my stance on this issue:

Microsoft employee posting in microsoft.public.technet newsgroup July 03, 2009

Yes there is a comprehensive EULA for all the software available to TechNet subscribers.
All downloadable software is for evaluation purposes only.
You may not use it on personal machines for day to day work, such as on your home machine to send and receive your normal e-mails or run a spreadsheet for your finances or write a letter in a word processor.
TechNet is not a cheap way of getting software for your own day to day use - for that you buy it like everyone else.
TechNet software is for eval only.
This is clearly stated at
What are TechNet Plus subscriptions? | TechNet Plus Subscriptions
"...
Subscription Benefits
Microsoft software licensed for evaluation purposes. Evaluate full-version
commercial products without time limits or feature limits, including
Microsoft operating systems, servers, and Office System software. With
full-version software, you can make informed decisions about new
technologies and deployments at your own pace.
..."

--

Mike Brannigan


MSFN Forums

Supervisor quote:
Meaning, if you're planning on buying a subscription to get the software for personal use on your machines, you've violated the EULA that you will have to agree to for either to get the software. Second, you can run MSDN or Technet software on YOUR machines only, and ONLY FOR EVALUATION PURPOSES, not for everyday use, and NOT on any machines that are not going to be actively used by you (aka your friends' machines), that is also in violation of the technet or MSDN EULA that you'll have to agree to when you sign up for and purchase the service You really, REALLY need to understand what "Evaluate" and "only" mean, and what the statement "only the licensed subscriber may use the included products" mean to truly understand the EULA. If what you think is possible with a Technet plus subscription was actually possible, why would Microsoft sell any product at all when you could get around it for $350 a year?

Neowin Forums

Global Admistrator quote:
It is for "evaluation" use only. That is, for businesses needing to test suitability and compatibility. Not for home users wanting to warez a bunch of copies.

The Windows Blog on acquiring Windows 7

For IT Professionals:

There are a few ways you can get Windows 7 RTM. IT Professionals with TechNet Subscriptions will be able to download Windows 7 RTM in English on August 6th

For Beta Testers & Enthusiasts:

I know there have been some rumors going around about a “family pack” for Windows 7. We have heard a lot of feedback from beta testers and enthusiasts over the last 3 years that we need a better solution for homes with multiple PCs. I’m happy to confirm that we will indeed be offering a family pack of Windows 7 Home Premium (in select markets) which will allow installation on up to 3 PCs.

For Consumers:

Windows 7 will be in retail stores and shipping on new PCs starting October 22nd.


Other random opinions I agree with.

---------------------------------------------------------
just because one CAN do something, doesn't make it legal.
and the EULA clearly states that none of the products can be used in a production environment.
if you are using them in that type of environment, then you are breaking the EULA.
You can rationalize it any way you like. It's still against the EULA for the technet subscription.
------------------------------------------------------------

if you want to break the EULA, go ahead, but please don't try to "inform" other people that it's fine to do so.
anyone with a brain can understand the difference between a production environment and a testing environment.
To me, a 'test' environment is one removed from production for the purposes of testing new product.
Production is a machine where you do everyday tasks such as surfing & email & whatever else.
Is anyone going to bust you for using them inappropriately? I doubt it. Are you breaking the EULA? If you ask Microsoft's lawyers, you know the answer will be yes.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Using the technet subscription in the way its sounding from the initial few posts is pretty obviously against the EULA.
Like other posters mentioned, you can try to rationalize anything away, but it's clearly not for testing purposes. While I will agree that a testing period could be multi-year, that doesn't mean this type of usage is in accordance with the EULA.

If you think the usage scenario's are too GRAY an area to distinguish between testing/production, use this question:

After buying the technet subscription, and evaluating the software it provides - do you have a real intention of then going out and making a purchase of 3 copies of windows 7 , the OEM version of WHS, and office 2010? Testing means that purchase is a very real option, and it pretty clearly sounds like this isn't a case you'd be purchasing the software after you purchased the technet subscription, you are purchasing the subscription in lieu of buying the actual software....therefore not testing.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old May 26, 2010, 04:02 AM
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old May 26, 2010, 05:57 AM
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Dude a PRODUCTION environment is a professional environment... as in your company is USING the software to make money. A test / eval enviro is just that, any envri for personal use. Your home enviro on your home systems is not a production environment. Dont believe me PHONE em up, they will tell you the exact same thing. As for length of time...its unlimited. For PERSONAL use. Where has anyone, including me or pelt, said buy a technet and then sell the keys? If you want to pirate your software, thats your choice but dont try and justify it by saying there is no cheap and legal alternatives to doing so.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old May 28, 2010, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Dude a PRODUCTION environment is a professional environment... as in your company is USING the software to make money. A test / eval enviro is just that, any envri for personal use. Your home enviro on your home systems is not a production environment.
This is your distorted determination of their licensing terms that isn't even remotely close to the meaning of the words in the EULA. I believe you're drawing this conclusion to suit your own needs based on the wording that MS uses in their description.

The meaning of the word 'production' IS:

1. the act of producing
2. anything that is produced; product
3. the amount produced or the rate at which it is produced
4. (Economics) Economics the creation or manufacture for sale of goods and services with exchange value
5. any work created as a result of literary or artistic effort
6. (Performing Arts) the organization and presentation of a film, play, opera, etc.
7. (Performing Arts / Theatre) Brit the artistic direction of a play
8. (Music, other)
a. the supervision of the arrangement, recording, and mixing of a record
b. the overall sound quality or character of a recording the material is very strong but the production is poor
9. (Engineering / Automotive Engineering) (modifier) manufactured by a mass-production process a production model of a car make a production (out) of
Informal to make an unnecessary fuss about

So of the 9 different usages of the word you are choosing description 4. - and ONLY that one - I doubt very much Microsoft is.

TechNet Plus Subscriptions License Terms

2.INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS
a.General.
Single User License. If you acquire a single user license, one user may install and use copies of the software on any of your devices.
b.Certain Components.
Evaluation Software. One user may install and use copies of the evaluation software listed in the COMPONENTS.TXT file, even if you obtained a server license. You may use the evaluation software only to evaluate it. You may not use it in a live operating, in a staging environment or with data that has not been sufficiently backed up.

TechNet Plus Blog | IT Professional Community | Newsgroup Support

Can I use evaluation software received in my TechNet Plus subscription at home?

The license grants installation and use rights to one user only, for evaluation purposes, on any of the user’s devices, this may include devices at home. Keep in mind that you may use the evaluation software only to evaluate it. You may not use it in a live operating environment, a staging environment, or with data that has not been sufficiently backed up.

As to your "personal use", the agreement and FAQ are using the term "live operating" and they clearly indicate this as not being legal. I know you can pretend to be evaluating the software at home forever, but when one is using the Technet Subscription as an alternative to buying the software by legal means (in other words, in accordance to the EULAs) in a home network for every day personal USE, 'evaluating' becomes a crock ... not to mention the likelihood that multiple users are also taking advantage of the subscription benefits.
Quote:
Dont believe me PHONE em up, they will tell you the exact same thing.
The response from a call will be so dependent upon who one talks to at Microsoft and one's description of how they are using the subscription that it isn't going to prove my point to you. For example, if I say I'm an IT Pro wanting to install MS products on MY personal devices in order to evaluate their products while at home the answer will certainly be YES. However if I say I'm joe geek who supports family & friends PCs and I'm wanting to use a subscription to install MS products on my home network of computers that will be used by myself, wife, children, parents, siblings, grandparents, or friends the answer will be NO. There are a myriad of descriptions in between these extremes one could provide to sway the answer one way or the other.
Quote:
As for length of time...its unlimited.
Yes, it is one of the features that is clearly stated by MS .... but that has nothing to do with the type of usage that is acceptable or not. Deflecting are we?
Quote:
For PERSONAL use.
THIS is so blatantly wrong it's laughable ... and what really gets me going on this issue. There is NOTHING in the UELA or FAQ provided by MS that comes even close to indicating this! You are simply 'pirating' software within the confines of your own home ... and friends & relatives perhaps??
Quote:
Where has anyone, including me or pelt, said buy a technet and then sell the keys?
NOwhere .... and has nothing to do with the point I'm making. Again, a typical distortion of reality and a means of deflecting from the subject.
Quote:
If you want to pirate your software, thats your choice but dont try and justify it by saying there is no cheap and legal alternatives to doing so.
I'm not justifying a person's decision to pirate software or not, however, I am saying the Technet Subscription is not a cheap and legal alternative to legally purchasing software for PERSONAL use - Technet is for EVALUATION outside of a USE environment for IT Professionals. Ignoring and/or twisting the terms of the EULA for "PERSONAL use" is another form of 'pirating' software ..... have at er if you choose.

Last edited by bushwhacker; May 28, 2010 at 06:16 AM.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old May 28, 2010, 06:17 AM
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This can happen even on HWC. About 1 year ago I almost bought a copy of XP pro from a seller. It turned out he was just selling a copy of his CD key from his commercial license. Although he did own the CD key (at least that is what he said) he was still willing to sell it to anybody who wanted a copy so I declined to buy it once I found out.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old May 28, 2010, 06:55 AM
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Once again a "live operating environment" doesn't mean what you think it means. Thats is a very specific term to an IT professional. A LIVE environment for example is workstations be used by a company to get work done by actual employees besides the technet "owner". A live operating environment is using the server OS on a LIVE server....as in a server that is being access by individuals besides the technet owner. Is it a gray area. Yup. Has MS purposely made it a gray area. Yes. They would rather have you purchase a technet subscription rather then pirate. Technet is still not widely known and the day it does become widely known...is prolly the day it will go like other similar programs MS has where the eval period is limited to the technet subscription period and when you subscription runs out you are then breaking the EULA.

Honest Bushwacker all I can say is...CALL them up ASK them if you can use this in a home envrionement for an unlimited time eval. They will tell you that is perfectly fine as long as it is for YOU and others can not access it or use it and you are NOT using it to make money. That is the MS definition of evaluation. I have not said anywhere that joe schmo should buy a technet sub, and install it on his moms comp. When someone asks for personal use then yes that is a legit use of technet. The OP bought a key for HIS comp that was blacklist. Where does it say he was using it on 10 dif systems? It was his own personal system. Sounds like a legit use of technet to me.

It seems like you have an axe to grind and it doesnt matter what the situation is. It also seems you are purposely trying to impose what you consider "evaluation" on to others, including MS to make your point. If you dont believe me on what technet was setup for and designed for....I dont care at this point. I have talked to them at various MS conferences over the years, they know exactly what 99% are doing and that is OK with them as its the best advertisement they can get. I've been using what is now colloquially called "Technet" since NT was released. Hell they used to include it for free when you got your MCSE (1 year). You are purposely ignorant on the subject and seem to not care as it doesnt fit into your world view. Most likely you want it to be nice and black & white so that you can justify your own actions. God bless is all I have to say.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old May 28, 2010, 09:52 AM
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Thanks for coming to my rescue AKG. Couldn't have said it any better. What ever people think of TechNet and how I use it is irelavant. I have a TechNet subscription. I use the software for my personal use. I don't run a bussiness, I don't program for profit heck I don't even maintain my side bussiness accounts on this machine. I game, I surf, I download music from Itunes and rip my music from CD's. I facebook, I email and post in forums. If Microsoft has a problem with how I interpret their vague EULA and how I use their software well they can take it up with me personally.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old May 28, 2010, 10:09 AM
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I am using apps and OS's downloaded from Technet on my Live Production machines only, and I will be evaluating their daily performance for a really, really, really really long time.

;)
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old May 28, 2010, 01:55 PM
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AkG for PM.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old May 28, 2010, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaw View Post
I am using apps and OS's downloaded from Technet on my Live Production machines only, and I will be evaluating their daily performance for a really, really, really really long time.

;)

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