Windows 7 beta

[bojangles]

Originally Posted by belgolas

that may be true but from my own experience going from XP to Vista there is almost 0 FPS loss in games.

Now I don't think an OS should always be getting faster. Come on you can only optimize so much and then add a much better GUI on top of that. Besides you wont notice a difference in game.

I agree. What's already been tweaked has been tweaked to it's limit. HOWEVER, WTF did M$ do to the audio kernel? I have no idea why they had to change all that...

[enaberif]

Originally Posted by belgolas

that may be true but from my own experience going from XP to Vista there is almost 0 FPS loss in games.

I don't know what games you play but you can look at any stats you want and FPS scores are very different between XP and Vista; Some XP are better at some Vista.

That you cannot deny.

[DarKStar]

Originally Posted by belgolas

that may be true but from my own experience going from XP to Vista there is almost 0 FPS loss in games.

Based on what games ? Because as a general statement it would be wrong. Some DX9 games play much better on XP than Vista, due to the way Vista handles DX9. Example ? Kane & Lynch - played ultra smooth in XP, in VISTA sluggish in some areas, defiantely a frame drop. THe new Quantum of Solace game, plays smooth on XP, and in VISTA, ok, but not as smooth, again because of the way it handles DX9. For DX10, no problem in VISTA. From what I understand DX9 in VISTA is processed / translated in realtime or there is some extra overhead.

Windows 7 looks like another scam in the making - Another way for Microsoft to renew its wallet and take your money - instead of releasing new service packs and improvements to VISTA, seeing as Windows 7 is not the "MAJOR" OS revision people thought it was but, VISTA with a new skin - and a few new functions that most people will never need to use..... Microsoft's built in security features, waht a laughable joke - I can live without their CRAP - Anything that has Microsoft and Security in the same sentence deserves a good laugh.

[sswilson]

Originally Posted by DarKStar

Based on what games ? Because as a general statement it would be wrong. Some DX9 games play much better on XP than Vista, due to the way Vista handles DX9. Example ? Kane & Lynch - played ultra smooth in XP, in VISTA sluggish in some areas, defiantely a frame drop. THe new Quantum of Solace game, plays smooth on XP, and in VISTA, ok, but not as smooth, again because of the way it handles DX9. For DX10, no problem in VISTA. From what I understand DX9 in VISTA is processed / translated in realtime or there is some extra overhead.

Windows 7 looks like another scam in the making - Another way for Microsoft to renew its wallet and take your money - instead of releasing new service packs and improvements to VISTA, seeing as Windows 7 is not the "MAJOR" OS revision people thought it was but, VISTA with a new skin - and a few new functions that most people will never need to use..... Microsoft's built in security features, waht a laughable joke - I can live without their CRAP - Anything that has Microsoft and Security in the same sentence deserves a good laugh.

I don't think I'd call it a "Scam". It's the Vista they should have released originally.

M$ had to do something to erase the stigma attached to their Vista launch, so while Windows 7 might not be much more than an improved Vista, it is the OS that us hardcore XP users might consider upgrading to in the future.

I doubt it was ever intended as something that current Vista users would want to shell out coin for. More than likely it's the best they could come up with to get the bad taste of Vista out of our mouths. :)

[enaberif]

Originally Posted by sswilson

I don't think I'd call it a "Scam". It's the Vista they should have released originally.

M$ had to do something to erase the stigma attached to their Vista launch, so while Windows 7 might not be much more than an improved Vista, it is the OS that us hardcore XP users might consider upgrading to in the future.

I doubt it was ever intended as something that current Vista users would want to shell out coin for. More than likely it's the best they could come up with to get the bad taste of Vista out of our mouths. :)

Windows 7 is already being called Vista RC2

[chrisk]

Originally Posted by bojangles

I agree. What's already been tweaked has been tweaked to it's limit. HOWEVER, WTF did M$ do to the audio kernel? I have no idea why they had to change all that...

Saw a M$ pie chart a while back that had audio drivers as the biggest reason by far for XP BSODs. They reworked the audio because developers (*ah hem* Creative *cough cough*) could not write a reliable driver. So M$ decided that audio had no place near the kernel anymore.

[enaberif]

Originally Posted by chriskwarren

Saw a M$ pie chart a while back that had audio drivers as the biggest reason by far for XP BSODs. They reworked the audio because developers (*ah hem* Creative *cough cough*) could not write a reliable driver. So M$ decided that audio had no place near the kernel anymore.

The biggest reason for XP BSODs is bad memory or filesystem.

Very rarely do you see a BSOD from a audio issue.

[chrisk]

Can't argue with you enaberif cause I can't find that pie chart lol

The chart might have represented application crashes instead...I prob should not have said BSOD unless I had a link to the chart

Edit 1: A study from Berekely done in 2006 indicates that device drivers are the greatest cause: "Poorly-written
device drivers contribute most of the crashes in our data." This is based on their small sample of course, and is still not the data released by M$ that I was looking for, and actually indicates that we are both wrong lol, as Intel graphics drivers lead the pack in that particular study:
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~archanag/publications/lisa.pdf

Edit 2: M$ engineer who worked on audio in Vista had this as his #1 reason to rewrite the audio stack in Vista: "The amount of code that runs in the kernel (coupled with buggy device drivers) causes the audio stack to be one of the leading causes of Windows reliability problems."
Larry Osterman's WebLog : What's up with Audio in Windows Vista?

[zoob]

Originally Posted by enaberif

The biggest reason for XP BSODs is bad memory or filesystem.

Very rarely do you see a BSOD from a audio issue.

If you have bad memory or a bad HDD how does that change what OS is going to have a BSOD? You're going to crash regardless if it's XP or Vista or whatever.

We've heard all of these Vista vs Windows 7 arguments when XP came out. XP is just a fancier version of Win2K.

Let's all go back to Win2K because it benches faster than XP!!!!

[enaberif]

Originally Posted by chriskwarren

Can't argue with you enaberif cause I can't find that pie chart lol

Edit 2: M$ engineer who worked on audio in Vista had this as his #1 reason to rewrite the audio stack in Vista: "The amount of code that runs in the kernel (coupled with buggy device drivers) causes the audio stack to be one of the leading causes of Windows reliability problems."
Larry Osterman's WebLog : What's up with Audio in Windows Vista?

The second major change we made was a totally revamped UI for audio. Sndvol32 and mmsys.cpl were completely rewritten (from scratch) to include new, higher quality visuals, and to focus on the common tasks that users actually need to do. All the old functionality is still there, but for the most part, it's been buried deep below the UI.

Meaning they are lazy and the easiest way to fix something broken is to completely screw over everyone and then have to rely on the hardware manufacturers to make sure the audio for THEIR card works properly.

Oh and to top it off.. if your looking for actual functionality well screw that here is a nice interface for you to suck on.

Again proving my point that all Microsoft cares about is a OS that is overly "pretty" to cater to those who matter the most.. first time computer buyers.