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  #21 (permalink)  
Old January 24, 2013, 06:53 PM
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Well I can't afford a Ferrari ( I means the car ) but I can afford the second fastest Intel desktop CPU, so why not. We can't speed on the road so I don't want to limit the speed of my PC too. LOL
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old January 24, 2013, 08:39 PM
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I honestly dont think the OP is trolling. Though a good litmus test would his/her views on PSU and if s/he uses the cheapest ones available (aka they are 'good enough' just like bottom of the barrel mobos) :)
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old January 24, 2013, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ibrihim View Post
Myths - 7 of them anyway
1. Z77 is faster than H61. No it is not, and Intel will tell you this. Same CPU on a cheap board will run at the same speed as a £340 board. Z77 has many extra features for enthusiasts and I am one but not much use for anyone with a sub £150 processor.
I would say that yes, for the most part there will be no difference. Higher end chipset may give you other things you want, however, like a more generous CPU overclock if that's your thing, or more PCI-E lanes, etc.

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2. You must have sata3 Why? after all no conventional hard drive can supply sata 2 speed let alone sata 3s speed . SSD can benefit- on a graph- but in real life only folk modded to perceive micro seconds will notice.
I personally wouldn't buy a motherboard without SATA3 unless it's a throwaway build, and then at that point I would just go completely used instead of buying new.

SSDs make a rather large difference to computing and ultimately it would be desirable to have all my clients on one when feasible within size constraints.

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3. USB3 a must have. Fair enough, that one terabyte USB stick you snapped up at CES for 3000 u.s. dollars will transfer the size of file you daily use better via usb3, but for most the small files transferred by usb won't see a difference.
Again, maybe I don't like waiting, but my 16GB USB3 thumb drive fills up in about 3 minutes or so vs the random 20 to 30 minute wait for any of my other of my drives, regardless of how "fast" they thought they were when purchased.

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4. Best Video Card possible. No, it's best card your display can handle. Up to 19 inch 1400x900 is about the best, the majority are 1366x800. Quite a lot of 1280x1024 still out there. Its harder to find low resolution benchmarking but it seems to show a £240 card won't display much better than a £120 card, again if you are capable of visually measuring exact FPS you might detect the difference but it won't look better - no WOW! factor at these resolutions.
Yes, running a game at 240 FPS looks no difference than 30 FPS to most people. No point blowing the budget on a video card that isn't going to do much in it's life and take a lot more out of your overall build budget.

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5. CPU Bottleneck. Nope. Unless the game can use 4 cores Any current Intel 2core inc Celerons will not bottle neck a sub £200 graphic card, maybe even £300.
My Q6600 @ 3.0ghz was severely bottlenecking my GTX560Ti, and got a crazy amount more FPS after upgrading to my 2700K @ 4.5ghz.

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6. The best is future proof. Obvious nonsense. When the above rig gets an upgrade in 2 or 3 years time board and cpu will retain 50% plus of the original purchase price . Even if sooner on Ebay or forums its 60% plus. Try that with a £150 motherboard. By the time the future is here your board ,your cpu, your PCIE3 graphics will all be redundant every time.
The "future proof" concept is certainly not future proof itself. The guys that buy the best rigs continually sell and upgrade before it's obsolete... which is great for guys like me

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7. Cheap boards don't last. well cheap boards don't get stressed, and as only the incurably stupid use cheap power supplies, you shouldn't need the 3 year g/tee it came with. Chances are it will still be going when socket 1155 is no longer available!
Having seen very few real motherboard failures other than dead caps, I would agree with you. However, I dislike working with cheap boards that require so much effort to get something to work and they have bad layouts to begin with.

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If I buy a board with usb3 and sata3 I waste £9 of video card money. What do I gain? ( also when do you read a post advising H61 chipset)
If I buy a sata 2 SSD I can get nearly double the capacity compared to sata3 although it will be a slow one (240GB@ £88) Again , I should notice?
Any SSD is a marked improvement over a HD and providing it's from a reputable company with a good toolbox support then it's the desired item, even if only SATA2. As the builder, you know the budget and the requirements for the system. If they need space over speed, then a "slower" SSD will do nicely in place of a smaller faster one. If someone offered me a 1TB SSD at SATA2 speeds for the $300 mark right now I'd sure find a way to purchase it....

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I replaced a mates 80GB H/D with a 90GB Kingston SSD. Three months later he is still telling people I am a genius and inviting them to see how fast his 5 yr old e5300 is. OK he is not a techie or a good judge of I.Q. , but we both got the WOW factor. Should I have said " well you need a new motherboard Z 77 is the best at the moment then you can use the latest Ivybridge processor etc". Knowing what a computer is to be used for and monitor size is as important as knowing whats available. As per the sticky on this forum.
No, you shouldn't have offered a Z77 chipset motherboard unless the client asks for "the best". As a builder you need to give them best bang for the buck within budget and knowing what they are going to do with the thing. Sometimes that means integrated video is perfectly fine and other times it means having to stick to a regular HD. Sometimes it means SLI'd 680's and triple 3d gaming.....
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old January 25, 2013, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dzzope View Post
]
On point 6, a dual core will be defunct in 2 -3 years yes, definitely.. an i5 or i7 will not.
why do people keep on saying this?

barring hardware failures, your hardware DOES NOT slow down over time. it slows down over the course of software changes (new version of MS office, new game, new malware, etc.).

if you can run a game at this FPS, it will ALWAYS run at this FPS.


while you and I and most people on this forum understand what you mean, i've NEVER seen anyone qualify that statement in real-life and non-tech people take it literally. Don't tell me you've never seen someone buy a new computer (and run the exact same software setup) when their old one becomes 'too old and slow' because they have too much malware on it.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old January 25, 2013, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Generic User #2 View Post
why do people keep on saying this?

barring hardware failures, your hardware DOES NOT slow down over time. it slows down over the course of software changes (new version of MS office, new game, new malware, etc.).

if you can run a game at this FPS, it will ALWAYS run at this FPS.


while you and I and most people on this forum understand what you mean, i've NEVER seen anyone qualify that statement in real-life and non-tech people take it literally. Don't tell me you've never seen someone buy a new computer (and run the exact same software setup) when their old one becomes 'too old and slow' because they have too much malware on it.
I never said it slowed down. I said it will be defunct in 2-3 years as the software and games become more hardware intensive.

If the requirements stayed the same none of us would ever need a new computer and I'd still be happy running my first self build of a 1Ghz single core duron, 256MB ram and a 4800TI.

Even if you run the same things in 2-3 years time it's likely that they will be updated with new tech etc.
WOW would be a good comparison.
These days to max it out and get good fps in every situation you actually need a reasonably high end rig..
If your running the same rig as when it was first released you would be running minimum settings.

Your right that as hardware ages it stays the same (mostly) but it's the shifting target that makes them become defunct/obsolete/not suitable for purpose over time.

My point is that your computer will last a good amount of time and give you good performance for more of that time if you don't stick to your current minimum requirements and get what you can afford (within reason)

On the car analogy, The Ferrari may not be needed but in 5 - 10 years time it's still a Ferrari, it won't be the latest and greatest but it'll still be quick and the POS cherry (chinese car) will be scrap.

A better analogy would be to compare an Audi A4 to a Skoda Superb.. basically the same car, share the majority of parts but the build quality and finish in the Audi will be better..
Is it needed, no, but some people want the Audi and not the Skoda regardless of the price difference.
It would be our job to point out the pro's and con's of each and point out the third/fourth options of a VW Passat / Seat alternative..

For users that basically browse the web etc then there is very little reason to upgrade ever though even in web browsing you'll see a difference between a new quad core based system and an old single or dual core.
Generally a re-load of the os and some pointers about how to manage stuff to keep it running at it's fastest is all thats needed.

Last edited by Dzzope; January 25, 2013 at 11:33 AM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old January 25, 2013, 04:10 AM
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[QUOTE=botat29;686473]You can troll us as much as you want but I will not downgrade to a Lada to please you. In 2013 we already have few games that benefit from mores cores, I mention 2 that I personally see a huge difference. So it's not overkill and Myths. And I will not comment on SSD, you are 2 or 3 years too late, everyone on this forum know the benefit of SSD over mecanical.[/QUOTE

Thanks again, I have looked up trolling and I don't think I am. I am not proposing this build as all you could want/need. It's just the best I could come up with for £300. It is based on my reading and limited experience. And exposing my prejudices and opinions.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old January 25, 2013, 05:40 AM
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[QUOTE=Ibrihim;686545]
Quote:
Originally Posted by botat29 View Post
It is based on my reading and limited experience. And exposing my prejudices and opinions.

that's it prejudices not facts
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old January 25, 2013, 06:21 AM
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Thank you,I feel prejudice is best defeated by reasoned persuasion. I post partly for that reason.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old January 25, 2013, 08:12 AM
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Two things I never ever cheap out on when building a rig is the PSU and motherboard. If I am given a budget that I cannot accommodate a proper PSU/mobo then I tell the 'customer' (this is not a business for me) that I cannot comfortably put together a computer that I feel good putting my name to. In these situations I try to tell them to get a pre-built machine.

At the end of the day, the low end machines are the toughest to configure for sure. If I do a poor job of it, I will just end up wasting my and the customer's time (and money). I refuse to support a machine built on a crappy foundation, and to me thats the PSU and mobo.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old January 25, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by chrisk View Post
Two things I never ever cheap out on when building a rig is the PSU and motherboard. If I am given a budget that I cannot accommodate a proper PSU/mobo then I tell the 'customer' (this is not a business for me) that I cannot comfortably put together a computer that I feel good putting my name to. In these situations I try to tell them to get a pre-built machine.

At the end of the day, the low end machines are the toughest to configure for sure. If I do a poor job of it, I will just end up wasting my and the customer's time (and money). I refuse to support a machine built on a crappy foundation, and to me thats the PSU and mobo.
Back in the day I built a few machines with OCZ PSUs. I ended up getting all those back eventually. Some of them even had blown motherboards due to them.

Now it's either Antec or Seasonic (for the good quality small PSUs they have, not including BASIQ) for lower end builds, and all the typical good brands for the higher end ones.

For the most part a properly built lower end machine I won't see it again for 3 or more years, which is just the way I like it.
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