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-   -   Z77N vs P8Z77-I and many more questions! (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/new-builds/57610-z77n-vs-p8z77-i-many-more-questions.html)

Anthraxious October 30, 2012 02:53 PM

Z77N vs P8Z77-I and many more questions!
 
Hi!

So I decided to make a thread here cause I need some help. My main issue right now is deciding to either buy a laptop (Eyeing the Asus G55VW) or build my own LAN PC. To do this I would go with the Node 304 case. Very neat little thing.

Now my question is for the motherboard. I've kinda wanted to go with the Asus P8Z77-I but I don't see much of a difference compared to Gigabyte's Z77N. The only thing is Asus having more USB 3.0 ports and Gigabyte having WiDi. I don't care much for WiDi as I build this for portability. I am aware of all the I/O differences except one thing I want to ask. The Gigabyte board has a PCI-E mini slot. Where is it and what can I plug into it? Also if I use the mini slot, will the PCI-E 3.0 port suffer any?

Here's the rig I wanted to build:
Asus P8Z77-I OR Gigabyte Z77N-WIFI (Want some input)
Intel i5 3570K 3.4Ghz
Patriot Viper Intel Extreme 1600Mhz CL9
Fractal Design Newton R3 600W (80 Plus Platinum - Subject to change, input wanted aswell)
MSI GeForce N660 TF 2GD5/OC 2GB
Samsung 830 256GB SSD
Fractal Design Node 304

If anyone has any input on a stupid decission please don't hesitate.


Another question, which I think Linus talked about in last months Live Show, is about the LGA 1155 socket. I believe he said that this socket is the one to build on in case you want to upgrade in the future. I can't remember if he said that 2011 was dying or if it was the 1156 he referred to. Anyway, just wondering about the sockets longevity. I'm going to help a friend build aswell, hence the question. He is going for a ATX-desktop so in that case it's more important to have the future in mind.


Hope you guys can help me out here. I should mention the obvious; I tried googling for the comparison between the motherboards but there aren't any (Just to see the ups and downs, really).

PS. Forgot to add: What cooling solution would you suggest? I am leaning toward the Corsair H-series. I've seen people recommend H40 and H60. Is the H100 too big? How about the space; enough? Or maybe I am fine with regular fan cooling. This being a small case however I doubt that.

moocow October 30, 2012 06:21 PM

I'm not sure if you can still find mini PCI-E SSD anymore. If not, then it's basically for half height wifi card. If you want to plug anything full height, you need a riser card. I would pick Gigabyte if I'm going to build a Hackintosh today.

http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/p.../4337/6641.jpg

dma0991 October 31, 2012 12:13 AM

There is no comparison, the Asus board is miles ahead better than the Gigabyte but it is an unfair comparison since the price difference between them is huge. Since you're only going for a mild overclock, the Gigabyte Z77N-WIFI is sufficient and gives you savings which could go to a GTX660 Ti or HD7870.

The amount of electricity saved from a more efficient PSU must be justified for its extra cost. For most servers where they are turned on 24/7, the savings is apparent but not for the normal home PC. You could get it if you want to but I would suggest something cheaper, like an 80+ Silver/Gold from Silverstone or Seasonic.

I think you heard Linus incorrectly. He probably meant LGA1155 in relation to LGA1156, not LGA1155 in relation to upcoming Intel processors. The upcoming Haswell/Broadwell will only work on LGA1150, thus making LGA1155 an impractical choice if there is a necessity to upgrade. I doubt that you will need an upgrade that soon in a span of 2-4 years because the Core i5 3570K is beastly for a mITX form factor. Should you find performance underwhelming, bump up the clocks.

The only suitable AIO watercooling unit is ones that are single 120mm and thin. You're restricted to a H55/H60. The H80 and H100 is impossible to fit in that case without modding.

Anthraxious October 31, 2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dma0991 (Post 667605)
There is no comparison, the Asus board is miles ahead better than the Gigabyte but it is an unfair comparison since the price difference between them is huge. Since you're only going for a mild overclock, the Gigabyte Z77N-WIFI is sufficient and gives you savings which could go to a GTX660 Ti or HD7870.

The amount of electricity saved from a more efficient PSU must be justified for its extra cost. For most servers where they are turned on 24/7, the savings is apparent but not for the normal home PC. You could get it if you want to but I would suggest something cheaper, like an 80+ Silver/Gold from Silverstone or Seasonic.

I think you heard Linus incorrectly. He probably meant LGA1155 in relation to LGA1156, not LGA1155 in relation to upcoming Intel processors. The upcoming Haswell/Broadwell will only work on LGA1150, thus making LGA1155 an impractical choice if there is a necessity to upgrade. I doubt that you will need an upgrade that soon in a span of 2-4 years because the Core i5 3570K is beastly for a mITX form factor. Should you find performance underwhelming, bump up the clocks.

The only suitable AIO watercooling unit is ones that are single 120mm and thin. You're restricted to a H55/H60. The H80 and H100 is impossible to fit in that case without modding.


Thanks mate, very thorough answer, I like that.

Now the socket question was not for this mITX build but for a friends ATX build. Gonna assemble some parts and the only sockets I can see available that have i7 processors like 3770k and 3930 are LGA 1155 and 2011. Which one of those is most likely to be futureproof so to speak? I'm guessing the Haswell/Broadwell are upcoming projects and there's no socket yet(?) so there's no point lingering on that.

For my mITX I wanted a cooling solution that wouldn't take too much space but still be efficient in case I decide to OC a tiny bit, or maybe more.

Also you say the Asus board is miles ahead compared to the Gigabyte one. Could you specify this? I'm very curious to know what actually differs apart from some I/O ports. I see that the Asus one supports higher freq RAM on the same chipset.

Lastly about the PSU, yes I figured it might be a slight overkill to go for a 80 PLUS Platinum seen as how I am not gonna use it 24/7. What do you think about the Be Quiet Straight Power E9 480W CM?
I'm searching on a swedish website called "prisjakt.nu" which compares prices on the swedish market and try to find a cheap but good PSU.

The i5's and i7's of gen 3 have a TDP of 77W while i've seen some charts go as high as 130ish W. The GTX 660 has about 150 if not mistaken so let's count up to 300 on those two. Still leaves plenty of room for other things like an SSD and second HDD. More than that won't be put in this case anyway. I'm not sure how much the MB and RAM needs though.

Thansk again for input guys, really appreciate it!

dma0991 October 31, 2012 11:47 AM

I'm not a firm believer in future proofing since new CPUs with new architecture come out in a 2 year cadence according to Intel's Tick Tock strategy. Getting a Core i7 3770K won't necessarily give you a better chance at future proofing the system since the CPU performance is guaranteed to last you for the lifetime of the PC, 5 years or so. Since it is a LAN party rig where its usage might only be limited to games, the Core i5 3570K is up to the task for many years to come.

You're constrained by the form factor which takes away unnecessary space in the casing. Therefore, you're also limited to what cooling solutions you could implement. An AIO unit that I've mentioned is as good as it gets since large air coolers will have a hard time fitting in the cramped space. Airflow in a small case can be quite bad, you will need to use the radiator fan as an intake as exhausting hot case air is not ideal.

The Asus board has a daughterboard with VRM components that allows it to have nearly the same power delivery potential as larger mATX/ATX sized boards. Since you're not aiming for the skies overclocks with this rig, the Gigabyte has enough brunt for a mild OC.

That PSU does look to be a better choice, if it is cheaper than the first. You are unlikely to get an estimation of power consumption by adding up their TDPs as it assumes the worst case scenario. With how power efficient this current generation of GPUs are, you could go up to a single HD7950/GTX660 Ti without hiccups. 8GB of RAM is plenty, 16GB(8GBx2) if you're generous and want some future proofing but I doubt you'll ever need that much.

Anthraxious October 31, 2012 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dma0991 (Post 667686)
I'm not a firm believer in future proofing since new CPUs with new architecture come out in a 2 year cadence according to Intel's Tick Tock strategy. Getting a Core i7 3770K won't necessarily give you a better chance at future proofing the system since the CPU performance is guaranteed to last you for the lifetime of the PC, 5 years or so. Since it is a LAN party rig where its usage might only be limited to games, the Core i5 3570K is up to the task for many years to come.

You're constrained by the form factor which takes away unnecessary space in the casing. Therefore, you're also limited to what cooling solutions you could implement. An AIO unit that I've mentioned is as good as it gets since large air coolers will have a hard time fitting in the cramped space. Airflow in a small case can be quite bad, you will need to use the radiator fan as an intake as exhausting hot case air is not ideal.

The Asus board has a daughterboard with VRM components that allows it to have nearly the same power delivery potential as larger mATX/ATX sized boards. Since you're not aiming for the skies overclocks with this rig, the Gigabyte has enough brunt for a mild OC.

That PSU does look to be a better choice, if it is cheaper than the first. You are unlikely to get an estimation of power consumption by adding up their TDPs as it assumes the worst case scenario. With how power efficient this current generation of GPUs are, you could go up to a single HD7950/GTX660 Ti without hiccups. 8GB of RAM is plenty, 16GB(8GBx2) if you're generous and want some future proofing but I doubt you'll ever need that much.

Great, thanks for that info. One thing I noticed when someone on a different forum built a rig like this and posted pics is that the PSU nearly touches the GPU. Does anyone have the measurements for the inside of the case or a general idea of how much space each part "should" take? Couldn't find them on the website eaither. I think a mITX case should have inside measurements aswell seen has how that's the important part. I was thinking of swapping the MSI GPU for Gainwards GTX 660 if the measurements are gonna be a problem. The MSI one is 235mm while the Gainward is 180mm. Of course a shorter PSU would be more preferable.

[EDIT] Also, I've seen someone post a review on a urchase of Gigabyte's Z77N saying there's no vCore. Is this the case?

alex knipfer October 31, 2012 02:34 PM

I would go with the cheapest of the ASUS P8Z77 line by going with the "-lx" version. It won't support SLI, but will support Crossfire, depends on if you plan on upgrading in the future to two cards. Like somebody mentioned above, 660 Ti will be much better, not sure if you have a budget either.

Generic User #2 October 31, 2012 02:50 PM

I'm also speccing for the same case. The PSU I'm currently speccing is the Silverstone SFX Series 450W 12V 80PLUS Gold Power Supply 80mm Fan

I currently use a SG07 with an ATX power supply and non-modular cables. it is a nightmare. I figure I can save myself alot of pain by having no extra cables lying around and store the extra cable length in the space next to the PSU, rather than next to the GPU.

dma0991 November 1, 2012 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthraxious (Post 667713)
Great, thanks for that info. One thing I noticed when someone on a different forum built a rig like this and posted pics is that the PSU nearly touches the GPU. Does anyone have the measurements for the inside of the case or a general idea of how much space each part "should" take? Couldn't find them on the website eaither. I think a mITX case should have inside measurements aswell seen has how that's the important part. I was thinking of swapping the MSI GPU for Gainwards GTX 660 if the measurements are gonna be a problem. The MSI one is 235mm while the Gainward is 180mm. Of course a shorter PSU would be more preferable.

[EDIT] Also, I've seen someone post a review on a urchase of Gigabyte's Z77N saying there's no vCore. Is this the case?

Most standard 500W PSUs are not longer than it needs to be so it won't be an issue. The issue is that the length of the GPU is blocking some of the modular PSU connectors. This could be mitigated by using a non modular PSU but creates another problem, cable mess in a cramped case. The best solution would be to get a shorter GPU which should solve the problem. A standard mITX motherboard is 17cm2 and the Gainward GPU is 180mm. This means that it will only protrude 10mm from the motherboard and most of the modular PSU connectors are not blocked.

There is no straightforward way to modify the voltage manually with this particular board but shouldn't be a problem since most Core i5 3570Ks will do 4.0-4.2GHz at stock voltage settings. You'll probably run into cooling issues before you're limited by its clockspeed and voltage.

Anthraxious November 1, 2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dma0991 (Post 667830)
Most standard 500W PSUs are not longer than it needs to be so it won't be an issue. The issue is that the length of the GPU is blocking some of the modular PSU connectors. This could be mitigated by using a non modular PSU but creates another problem, cable mess in a cramped case. The best solution would be to get a shorter GPU which should solve the problem. A standard mITX motherboard is 17cm2 and the Gainward GPU is 180mm. This means that it will only protrude 10mm from the motherboard and most of the modular PSU connectors are not blocked.

There is no straightforward way to modify the voltage manually with this particular board but shouldn't be a problem since most Core i5 3570Ks will do 4.0-4.2GHz at stock voltage settings. You'll probably run into cooling issues before you're limited by its clockspeed and voltage.

Lol, yea obviously. I should've just done the math myself. Anyway, I'll look into this and see where it leads me.

Putting this build aside, I am currently sitting on a desktop with a Gigabyte 790XTA-UD4 housing a Phenom II x4 965 BE. Some time ago I upgraded from GTS 250 to Crossfire XFX 7870's. The only problem is in Borderlands 2 where I cannot have physX enabled. The way it works with AMD is that physX gets transferred to the CPU to handle instead. This is where I think my CPU is falling behind. This in turn leads me to think that other CPU dependent games, both today and in the future, will not hold up. Anyway, long story short: Will upgrading to a MB with dual x16 lanes and Z77 (i7 3770K) make a huge difference in performance, both in and out of games? Of course I am also using an SSD so there's no HDD issue.


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