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  #11 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 05:23 AM
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First, if your 250 isn't doing better than your 8600, it's probably due to a CPU bottleneck (not sure how that would happen, but that's what it looks like).

Anyway, unless one has a custom cooler there's not going to be a difference between the two 5770s you selected.

While the heatsink may be all copper, the primary determining factor of a heatsink's effectiveness is it's design, not its material. The Hyper 212 Plus, while not all copper, performs very well (in part due to the HDT design). Besides, the one you chose is FAR too expensive, especially on a $700 budget.

As for the motherboard, yes. 1000 times yes. Besides better OC abilities, if you go with ATI cards the 785G one won't really allow Crossfire (x16-x4 instead of the x8-x8 on the 790X's PCI-E slots).
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendallcschm View Post
except the one i chose is ENTIRELY copper.. it can keep things cooler than the hyper 212.... i believe copper is the most conductive material
as I can see you know better....good luck with your build
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 06:30 AM
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Kendallcschm, many people around here have put up a thread asking for help, but are acting like you are, seeming to not want the help. If you don't want to accept other people's suggestions, expect to be ridiculed and ignored.

Now, the Hyper 212+ is definitely a better choice than the CNPS9900. Cheaper, and I'm pretty sure it performs better. While it may not be all copper, that doesn't mean it can't do it's job. There's a reason it's been on backlog at many places for a while now.

As for the power supply; it'll probably work, but if you want something that lasts and that is proven to be quality, I suggest following these guy's suggestions. Skimping out on something that powers all your expensive parts is not a good idea. If it dies out and takes stuff with it, you're going to be spending a couple hundred dollars on new parts instead of another $50 or so for a higher quality PSU from the start.

And again, they are making good suggestions for video cards. The main reason one would go NVIDIA is for either Folding@Home or something CUDA related. Since your main priority is gaming, an ATI card will do plenty fine at a lower price.

But, if you're not ready to accept our suggestions, then I highly suggest not responding to this thread like you have been and just let it die.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raserei408 View Post
First, if your 250 isn't doing better than your 8600, it's probably due to a CPU bottleneck (not sure how that would happen, but that's what it looks like).

Anyway, unless one has a custom cooler there's not going to be a difference between the two 5770s you selected.

While the heatsink may be all copper, the primary determining factor of a heatsink's effectiveness is it's design, not its material. The Hyper 212 Plus, while not all copper, performs very well (in part due to the HDT design). Besides, the one you chose is FAR too expensive, especially on a $700 budget.

As for the motherboard, yes. 1000 times yes. Besides better OC abilities, if you go with ATI cards the 785G one won't really allow Crossfire (x16-x4 instead of the x8-x8 on the 790X's PCI-E slots).
Sorry mate I have to correct this though. The Material is one of the most determining factors when it comes to heatsink efficency. The 212 is very nice and an awesome budget cooler. The CNPS9900 is amazing too as I have run one on a 965 and I loved it.

Design does make a difference, but if you use a cooler with alloyed Aluminum it can be the best design in the world but will be limited by Thermal Resistance and Thermal Conductance of the Aluminum.

Regards,
ST
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Old February 3, 2010, 09:47 AM
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Regardless, the Zalman is just plain outside his price range. Not to mention copper has other drawbacks including weight. The TRUE Copper cools very well...but it weighs almost 2kg.
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"If dancing is sure to result in failure then you must dance anyway."
Lo Mein said that, and I think he knows a little more about dancing than I do pal, because he invented it! Then he perfected it so that no man could best him in the club of honor.
Then he used his prize money to buy two of every whore on Earth. Then he herded them all onto a boat, then they all beat the crap out of every single one of him.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raserei408 View Post
Regardless, the Zalman is just plain outside his price range. Not to mention copper has other drawbacks including weight. The TRUE Copper cools very well...but it weighs almost 2kg.
Regardless perhaps, but I'm trying to help you so the right information. As for Weight, I lugged that Case with me 1000 times and it never was a worry, usually the retention systems will keep it firmly planted if done right.

I do agree that the Copper TRUE is a monster, the Zalman one is 1kg I beleive or just Under. Now as for the Cost, yes I do agree he probably only needs Something like the 212, for cost wise and such. So No worries there mate I get what you're saying.

ST
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raserei408 View Post
Regardless, the Zalman is just plain outside his price range. Not to mention copper has other drawbacks including weight. The TRUE Copper cools very well...but it weighs almost 2kg.
now with weight.. does it really make a difference.. this is where i get lost.. i don't know how much of a difference it makes... the one i have on my rig now is a beast.. all copper and my temps never go above 55C ... and it weighs 1700 Grams.. never had a problem with it.. and i sincerely apologize if it appears that i have an attitude.. i didn't really know i came across that way.. and i am taking suggestions.. i went from an Nvidia (even though im a fan boy) to an ATI 5770 ... and i changed my mem to Ripjaws instead of my original post
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendallcschm View Post
i know the power supply is cheap but its quality.. i know it will function well cause i trust that brand.. i got a 400W OCZ for a friend of mine and he is probably running above 400W
You're way off the mark there. The OCZ PSU you chose is crap. OCZ's 400W PSUs are actually quite a bit better, since they're made by a different manufacturer and use a different design. However, the 600W StealthXStream is definitely not a quality PSU. Here are a few suggestions, all of which are much better than the OCZ unit:

Newegg.com - Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 &#47; EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC &#34;compatible with Core i7&#47;Core i5&#34; Power Supply - Power Supplies
Newegg.com - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 &#47; EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies
Newegg.com - CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX 550W ATX12V V2.2 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - Power Supplies
Newegg.com - SeaSonic SS-500ET Bronze 500W ATX12V v2.31 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
Sorry mate I have to correct this though. The Material is one of the most determining factors when it comes to heatsink efficency. The 212 is very nice and an awesome budget cooler. The CNPS9900 is amazing too as I have run one on a 965 and I loved it.

Design does make a difference, but if you use a cooler with alloyed Aluminum it can be the best design in the world but will be limited by Thermal Resistance and Thermal Conductance of the Aluminum.
A copper heatsink using the same design as an aluminum heatsink will perform better. However, the design, not the material, is actually the most important factor. Most of the better coolers on the market right now use aluminum fins, such as the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme and IFX-14, Prolimatech Megahalems, Titan Fenrir, Zalman CNPS10X Flex, etc. Copper is actually a less ideal material for larger heatsinks in many situations for a number of reasons, despite its superior thermal properties.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 01:42 PM
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[quote=Zero82z;327970]You're way off the mark there. The OCZ PSU you chose is crap. OCZ's 400W PSUs are actually quite a bit better, since they're made by a different manufacturer and use a different design. However, the 600W StealthXStream is definitely not a quality PSU. Here are a few suggestions, all of which are much better than the OCZ unit:

Newegg.com - Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC "compatible with Core i7/Core i5" Power Supply - Power Supplies
Newegg.com - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies
Newegg.com - CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX 550W ATX12V V2.2 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply - Power Supplies
Newegg.com - SeaSonic SS-500ET Bronze 500W ATX12V v2.31 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Power Supplies

A copper heatsink using the same design as an aluminum heatsink will perform better. However, the design, not the material, is actually the most important factor. Most of the better coolers on the market right now use aluminum fins, such as the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme and IFX-14, Prolimatech Megahalems, Titan Fenrir, Zalman CNPS10X Flex, etc. Copper is actually a less ideal material for larger heatsinks in many situations for a number of reasons, despite its superior thermal properties.[/quote]

Yes and No. Take the TRUE and TRUE Copper. Both Cast from the same Mold so to speak, 1 with one type of Materials, 1 with another. Design is the Same, Materials different. The Copper Wins the Battle.
And Not all Coolers using Aluminum are created equal either. It depends what they alloy and treat the Aluminum with, the more they mix, the lower its Thermal Capacity is and higher its thermal resistance is.
Copper for the most part gets away scott free on that accord.

Yes not all applications need them, however if what you said was entirelly true then Heatpipes would be AL as well correct? I'm just curious as to what exactally you mean by design being more important than its Material?

ST
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old February 3, 2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
Yes and No. Take the TRUE and TRUE Copper. Both Cast from the same Mold so to speak, 1 with one type of Materials, 1 with another. Design is the Same, Materials different. The Copper Wins the Battle.
If you would care to read my post, I did specifically state that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
And Not all Coolers using Aluminum are created equal either. It depends what they alloy and treat the Aluminum with, the more they mix, the lower its Thermal Capacity is and higher its thermal resistance is.
Copper for the most part gets away scott free on that accord.
There is very little variation between most heatsinks as far as the nature of the aluminum alloy used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
Yes not all applications need them, however if what you said was entirelly true then Heatpipes would be AL as well correct?
No, not at all. Copper is an ideal material for heatpipes because it is very easy to deform, and it conducts heat very well. In terms of the design of most modern heatsinks, the heatpipes are actually the most critical components for heat transfer, so it makes sense to construct them out of copper. However, for the fins, Aluminum is actually a very good choice since it is a stronger material than copper, it is much less dense, it is cheaper, and it still has good thermal properties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
I'm just curious as to what exactally you mean by design being more important than its Material?
To use a crude example, a big block of copper is not nearly as good of a cooler as a finned aluminum heatsink. To be more specific, with heatsinks nowadays, the main critical factors are heat transfer from the CPU to the heatsink, heatpipes, and fin surface area. For the first two, copper is very useful, which is why all high-end heatsinks use copper bases and heatpipes. However, as far as the fins go, surface area is the most important factor, especially since nowadays we tend to pair heatsinks with very large fans. It's very advantageous to use aluminum fins from a practicality perspective, due to the material properties I mentioned above.
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