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Old January 8, 2009, 09:45 AM
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Default New here and a new build any thoughts plus first water cooling build

Well i am putting together a new system for myself, This will be my first attempt at water cooling. Just for starters i was thinking with just cooling the CPU and maybe the Mobo north and south bridge along with the Mosfets.


Here is where things are at so far

Chassis:
The case i have Decided on is the Mozart TX. I was thinking the space that it has would be great and i am really just tired of looking at a long skinny box. The case seems to be well designed and has many happy customers. It would not be my first thermaltake case.

Thermaltakeusa»Chassis»Full Tower»Mozart Series»Mozart Tx : Mozart Tx VE1000SWA

PSU
For the Power supply i am going with a Corsair TX850W I think this should be sufficient for me needs in the foreseeable future or at least a for a little time to come. I understand that when you overclock the i7 that they become pretty big power hogs but think this PSU should be capable, no?

Welcome to Corsair :: TX Power Supply Product Information

Motherboard
The Motherboard i am thinking of going with the Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 It seems to be a nice board. I am not really worried about Tri-SLI, most i will ever do is a dual Graphics card setup. The board it self seems to have a decent feature set and i think will be ok for my noobish Overclocking needs. I did end up picking this board over others due to the price and the 10 SATA connections. I personaly like the idea of just being able to continually add drives to my system instead of being forced to remove down the road and transfer things over. I will admit though i have been a bit stumped on some of the differences between the UD5 and the Extreme or even why i would want to take the P6T Deluxe instead?

GIGABYTE - Product - Motherboard - Overview - GA-EX58-UD5 (rev. 1.0)

Processor
Going with the Intel Core i7 920 Pretty much a no brainer for me, with the performance to cost it provides. Not to mention how easily i have seen it being clocked to 4Ghz in Different reviews. The cost of the other two chips is deffinitely a deturant to go any hire for me

RAM
RAM i decided to go with G.Skill F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ 6GB DDR3 3X2GB DDR3-1600 CL 9-9-9-24 Obviously since it is over 4GB i will be running a 64-Bit OS i also am getting a Corsair Dominator Airflow Memory Fan for some added cooling over the RAM.


Vidcard
The Video card i am still undecided and waiting curently to see what happens with the market, Once again i will be looking at cost performance but it does not mean i am not willing to spend a bit more to also get longevity. My Budget on this is pretty open i was originally looking at the 4870X2 to give you some ideas but only one of them for the moment

Fluid
The fluid i went with Feser One Fluid after looking at a few things here on HC


Radiators
I am sure that most of you will not agree with this but i do like thermaltake and want to see more great products from them. Looking again at over all cost i decided to pickup two 240mm rads with fans already on them Thermaltake model number TMG 2 P/N: CL-W0181

Thermaltakeusa»Liquid Cooling»Liquid Cooling Upgrades»TMG 2 : TMG 2 CL-W0181

Pump & Resivoir plus temp sensor
The same will go for my Pump and Ressivoir i was looking for something simple that had an ok flow rate not to mention the bundled Temp sensor as well. The Aquabay M5 Kit seemed to fit the bill.

Thermaltakeusa»Liquid Cooling»Liquid Cooling Upgrades»AquaBay M5 : AquaBay M5 CL-W0103

flow and additional temp sensor
Also am picking up the Flow TX Plus for flow verification obviously and an additional tempurature sensor and display for another part of the Cuircut.

Thermaltakeusa»Liquid Cooling»Liquid Cooling Upgrades»Flow TX Plus : Flow TX Plus CL-W0138


Tubing
For Tubing i really have not been sure why i see people buying some very overpriced either coloured tubing or regular tubing. I went with a 3/8 ID tube. Part of my Tubing i have a bit of an odd idea that i will get into later once i have something to show. I have not seen anyone else with this though as a hint (might be because its a bad idea or maybe because it's just not as easy to work with) included a picture of the tubing i have


Waterblocks?
As far as water blocks go i am still undecided what direction to take. I could use some feedback as to different ones to use for the needs i have. and why i would want to use the block as opposed to other water blocks.

I look forward to your feedback on all of this and information that could help.

Edit: just to give you an idea i use my comp for all the basics plus gaming heavily and Encoding video usually.
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Last edited by bobiseverywhere; January 8, 2009 at 11:01 PM.
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Old January 8, 2009, 11:01 PM
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anyone have some words of wisdom for me from there experience?
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Old January 8, 2009, 11:58 PM
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You won't find a lot of fans of Thermaltake's watercooling parts on this site.

For example, your chosen rad is aluminum. That means you have to have aluminum blocks or risk galvanic reactions from having 2 different metals in your loop.

So, if I was building a 3/8" ID single block loop, I'd use a MCP355 or CPX-Pro pump, an MCR220 or Black Ice 240 rad, and a GTZ or Fuzion CPU block. If you're putting a GPU block in, a 3x120 rad would be minimal with the i7, they throw lots of heat in the loop.

As for a GPU, depends on your desired resolution. A GTX 260 or 4870 is great for 1680x1050 and under, still good for 1900x1200. If you're talking about 2500x1600, then 4870x2, SLI'd 260's or maybe the new 295.
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Old January 9, 2009, 04:23 AM
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Thank you for the info.

I am going to look into this much further then and see what additives are in the feser one. i was thinking along the lines of a cars water cooling that does have dissimilar metals in it without to many issues. That being said though i will have to look and see how close or far apart copper and aluminum are then.

For the graphics i will be running 1920X1200 but on that note i would like to find myself a card that i can push up all the eye candy in a game at that rez so i guess i would have to look at SLI'd 260's? or the dual GPU cards
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Old January 9, 2009, 04:51 AM
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Ok well i am no metallurgist

Edited: since for some reason i can not form sentences in the morning

Did a bit of reading and with what i found and how far apart they are on the Pauling scale shouldn't they be ok with the right additive in the mix of water to help prevent any transmission of electrons. Even though additives like water wetter from red line coat the internals of the system to help prevent these issues, is there any proof that they reduce the thermal transmission of the metal to the water in the system? according the their claims and from what i have seen in cars it will improve the transmission of heat through what ever medium (metal) that being said though with any ethyl glycol in the water there is an adverse effect too, so best is to have pure water or additives that will work with the water wetter


Copper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Atomic properties Crystal structure face centered cubic
0.3610 nm Oxidation states +1, +2, +3, +4
(mildly basic oxide) Electronegativity 1.90 (Pauling scale) Ionization energies
(more) 1st: 745.5 kJ·mol−1 2nd: 1957.9 kJ·mol−1 3rd: 3555 kJ·mol−1 Atomic radius 128 pm Atomic radius (calc.) 145 pm Covalent radius 138 pm Van der Waals radius 140 pm



Aluminium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Atomic properties Crystal structure face centered cubic
0.40494 nm Oxidation states 3, 2 [1], 1 [2]
(amphoteric oxide) Electronegativity 1.61 (Pauling scale) Ionization energies
(more) 1st: 577.5 kJ·mol−1 2nd: 1816.7 kJ·mol−1 3rd: 2744.8 kJ·mol−1 Atomic radius 125 pm Atomic radius (calc.) 118 pm Covalent radius 118 pm

Last edited by bobiseverywhere; January 9, 2009 at 05:01 AM.
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Old January 9, 2009, 05:20 AM
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Water Wetter would work fine in a Car (all the guys in the Subaru Club Swear by it).
However, in a car 98% of the parts this stuff contacts is Metal and the transfer Tubes.
I cannot say what would happen putting it through a Plastic Housed Pump, with that kind of tubing. I have been told to leave it out of my Loop and such.
Mind you automotive Coolant is really not that different from bottled coolant you get for these systems (minus some additives), Ethylene Glycol + Distilled water. Usually its just the concentration that matters, for a LC system 25%/75% (greater # being water) would work.
As for mixing metals. Even with swiftech's system you would be mixing Copper + Brass as there Rad Cores are Brass with Copper Fins, and the fittings are chrome plated nickel. No matter what metals get mixed in these systems to one degree or another. I say If you use a typical coolant, or even that Feser stuff I would imagine you'd be okay.
I'm No metallurgist myself, however I'll go one step beyond and wait till my co-workers come in this morning and ask (chemists and one In-organic specialist) to see what there take is.

Best Regards,

ST

P.S. TT's boxed systems work, however, as was advised to me, making a Swiftech setup is more efficent.
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Old January 9, 2009, 05:45 AM
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hehehe well i would say that any of the car clubs i have been in do swear by the stuff :)

That is a good question about the pump and tubes though. I am very curious as to what your colleagues will say.

I would figure as much on the Tt Boxed setups they do have a name for them selves and also put a fair bit of R&D into anything they do. Even if it does meet sometime in the middle with other things like (flash) I am curious though since i have no seen any serious stuff yet on the efficiency of any of these systems out there. In what was is a swiftech setup more efficent, Termal conductivity? Less presure drop in the system? More flow rate? (which from what i understand is debatable anyways)

Man i am getting so excited about all this, just not sure where to find the info so i can figure out what the charecturistics of my system will be.
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Old January 9, 2009, 06:02 AM
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In regards to the Major Difference between a TT Setup and a Swiftech is the Thermal Properties of the Radiators really.
Pumps, well, its debatable. I used an only TT DIY Kit a few years back that was less than Ideal, however they could have changed the pumps by this time. I am not sure.
People here swear by the Swiftech Pumps, and I tend to believe there advice in that regard at least.

The Rad for TT is Aluminum = Thermal Conductance of 2.37W/cmK

The Rad for Swiftech is an Alloy of Zinc and Copper (i.e. Brass) = Average Thermal Conductance = 3.26 - 3.93W/cmK (depends on the ratio of the Alloy, there are a lot of different Brass alloys out there). So, that makes the Swiftech Rad more thermally conductive than the TT one.

Personally speaking, TT yes has been around for a few years now, so they have established their name for somethings. However, I would suggest looking at reviews around the Web on their Products for WC'ing, and then look at the Swiftech ones. You will find that what most people say here is true.
That, and the fans TT chooses to use have a much lower Static Pressure than the ones on the Swiftech kit. Which, makes a difference in itself.
Static Pressure is a Key factor when having a Fan push through a Rad.

NCIX.com - Buy Swiftech H20-220 Apex Ultima Universal CPU Liquid Cooling Kit - H20-220 APEX ULTIMA In Canada.

That, would not only fit in that Case you have, but be a great start to your Liquid Cooling Needs. I think you would need to Purchase the LGA1366 Hold Down kit though, unless its included now (someone else might know better than me).

Best Regards,
ST
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Old January 9, 2009, 06:22 AM
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ahhh ok I did not know that, thank you very much for the info about the swiftech rads makes me think. I did already order the Tt rads but posibly i can return them and swap them for the swiftech ones.


this is the Fan info i found on the swiftech fans that are in that kit
Bearing type: sleeve bearing (for low noise)
MTBF: 40,000 Hrs Static 2.7 mmH20

In my current system i have Two of the Thermaltake Thunderblade fans so i might just switch them out for the ones on the Tt rad if i can not return them easily to get a higher Static pressure

Air Flow 78 CFM
Noise Level 21 dBA
Air Pressure 2.97 mm H2O
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Old January 9, 2009, 06:32 AM
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That, or get Yate Loons/Panflo/Delta/Scythe , all these fans exist on NCIX so the choice is up to you.
I think aiming for something 4-6mmh20 should suffice for your needs, and I can credit this knowledge to lots of reading online, advice here, and good old science!

Keep the Rads if you can't return them, upgrading to high performance Fans will at least help them be as efficent as possible.

My math might be a little off for the Brass (as stated), I had to look around my workstation here for the 'bible' of all Materials in existance (organic/inorganic).
So that # was created on an Average (even people in the science related industries make guesstimates).

ST
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"Dear Iceberg, I am sorry to hear about global warming. Karma is a bitch. Signed - Titanic"

I would rather believe and find god doesn't exist than to not believe and find that he does.

www.realhardwarereviews.com
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