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  #21 (permalink)  
Old November 18, 2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sam_Reynolds View Post
What about the ISPs who are on the receiving end of it? They have been forced to accept freight from Netflix, et. al thats creates more congestion on their network while consumers demand that the amount they are charged remain fixed.
They are already being paid for it since the user effectively pays for bandwidth. As it is every byte on the internet is double billed, once for the uploader and once for the downloader (the problem with all telecom really).

Also, I would wager that a good chunk of Bell's (and probably the other large telco's') infrastructure was funded with tax payer money.

Anyway the change is certainly an improvement over the original proposal, but if the CRTC was really trying to help the consumer they would open up the telecom industry. No more of this 50% Canadian owned nonsense.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old November 18, 2011, 07:23 PM
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This really ticks me off. The whole concept of "UBB" for a service like the internet...a necessity in the rapidly advancing technological civilization we live in, is absolutely ludicrous. We live in a time where everyone and everything is being shoved in our face in a digital format. Movies, music, video games, television, etc. are in some cases not even offered outside a digital format. Games as we all know can range from 5-30GB per download. There's absolutely no reason we should be paying for the game and then an overage charge for our bandwidth to even have access to the product (game) we've bought. The problems in Canada are the CRTC, a useless organization at this point, and the idiotic move by us to give Bell and Rogers the monopoly on these services.

Teksavvy has been under fire from sooooo many angles by Rogers and Bell for the simple fact that they can provide a better service and Rogers and Bell don't like that so they do everything in their power to protect their monopoly. It's not anything to do with their BS reasoning "Oh there's not enough bandwidth" It's all to do with those 2 douchebags of companies being greedy. Drive me nuts.

I saw George Burger on the Lang and O'Leary Exchange the other day it was quite an interesting interview. It was also the first time I ever agreed with Kevin O'Leary on anything.

Canada is the worst out of countries with our wealth of society for consumer technology. Outrageous prices, outrageous limitations on something so vital to everyday life in this modern world. It enrages me....a lot.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old November 21, 2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Reynolds View Post
What about the ISPs who are on the receiving end of it? They have been forced to accept freight from Netflix, et. al thats creates more congestion on their network while consumers demand that the amount they are charged remain fixed.
You can't discriminate on source content and delivery and talk about "free rides" for content providers. In regards to NetFlix, Youtube, Origin (EA games), Steam, or any other "content provider" they pay for access to the internet, and they pay a helluva lot more than you or I do.

Everybody pays to be on whether it's the subscriber (you and me) or the provider. What incentive is there to provide content on the internet if they get double and triple charged by ISPs?

So as was said before, every byte is double-charged. The provider gets charged and so do we.

As SKYMTL said above, I agree with some points you made, but I totally 100% disagree with this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk View Post
Interesting point. ISPs got screwed because people used what was sold to em. Now they are complaining about congestion.

You so are saying they overpromised?

You mean like this? Marketing fail.

Bell Magphone Commercial - YouTube



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian View Post
This really ticks me off. The whole concept of "UBB" for a service like the internet...a necessity in the rapidly advancing technological civilization we live in, is absolutely ludicrous. We live in a time where everyone and everything is being shoved in our face in a digital format. Movies, music, video games, television, etc. are in some cases not even offered outside a digital format. Games as we all know can range from 5-30GB per download. There's absolutely no reason we should be paying for the game and then an overage charge for our bandwidth to even have access to the product (game) we've bought. The problems in Canada are the CRTC, a useless organization at this point, and the idiotic move by us to give Bell and Rogers the monopoly on these services.

Teksavvy has been under fire from sooooo many angles by Rogers and Bell for the simple fact that they can provide a better service and Rogers and Bell don't like that so they do everything in their power to protect their monopoly. It's not anything to do with their BS reasoning "Oh there's not enough bandwidth" It's all to do with those 2 douchebags of companies being greedy. Drive me nuts.

I saw George Burger on the Lang and O'Leary Exchange the other day it was quite an interesting interview. It was also the first time I ever agreed with Kevin O'Leary on anything.

Canada is the worst out of countries with our wealth of society for consumer technology. Outrageous prices, outrageous limitations on something so vital to everyday life in this modern world. It enrages me....a lot.
To me it's like forcing all convenience/general stores to be drive thru, so I can't walk over to buy a chocolate bar. I then have to pay for gas to drive over, and then get charged a $.50 "convenience fee" for each and every item I buy past twenty items.

My other option is to get home delivery which is the essentially the same price but provided by another company, and really amounts to being the same cost because they also charge me a "gas surcharge" to bring the crap to my house.

That's UBB.

Until they open up the last mile and allow DSL co-location, nothing will change and Canada will still be an electronic/communications back-water.

I went with TekSavvy Cable for now to see how the service goes. There are some growing pains with it (slowdowns during peak times) but I'll take this over some crappy-ass overpriced, throttle garbage connection from Bell or Rogers, where I can't play multi-player games because the throttling/traffic-shaping back-end stuff is killing my packets.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old November 21, 2011, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Skyllz View Post
Exactly.

Now even grand-ma and grand-pa will watch high def clips on youtube, stuff on CBC, get a netflix account, ect... Before, those people took less then a gig a month, now they are in the 10-20gb a month of not more.

There are also more and more "high useage users" in the form of teenagers downloading everything they see continually.

We have devices that use more and more banwith(smartphones, laptops, ect...).

Usage is only going up and going up rapidly.
I remember back in 1996 I had a unlimited dialup account and I hit over 2gb of downloads in a month and my ISP gave me shit for that.. It was awesome.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old November 21, 2011, 05:44 PM
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Good podcast from Tek's spokesman George Burger. That's the guy who took on Mirco Bibic (The bell PR douchebag) on CBC.

Last edited by JMCD; November 21, 2011 at 05:54 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old November 23, 2011, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam_Reynolds View Post
What about the ISPs who are on the receiving end of it? They have been forced to accept freight from Netflix, et. al thats creates more congestion on their network while consumers demand that the amount they are charged remain fixed.
They haven't been forced to accept anything. If they didn't want to accept it, they could have stopped me from making the request. Then watch to see how many customers they keep and how many switch to somewhere else.

As for the content being "freight", I'll accept this analogy, and let us consider telecoms as delivery companies, such as FedX or UPS. Then don't expect me to pay $50 a month to be allowed to use your service, charge the content provider another fee (which would rightfully be passed back onto me) some fee to deliver the package to me, AND charge me a third fee at the end of the month based on how many packages I receive.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old November 24, 2011, 01:54 PM
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Check out Canadian ISP - Find an Internet Service Provider (ISP) in Canada for ISP available in your area :P

And yeah UBB is crap, they charge you for something that doesnt exist with their GB usage bs.

THe problem with big company is that they relly on an infrastructure that was mean to sustain customer need 10 years ago even though the needs have changed.

Now no matter how much you download and upload doesnt mean anything. They only have a bandwith limit and lets say it is 100 mbps in an area, it would be ok to put 4 people with a 25 mbps there and theyd use their share.

But the way it works is that they know some people wont use all of the bandwith available to them so instead th'eyll offer a 25 mbps to 24 people instead of 4. Now when everyone connects at once they get throllted at 4 mbps so to prevent people from using what they pay for and make them pay for something they dont want them to use they impose download/upload cap and point finger at p2p, netflix youtube and so on....

So yeah, if they want to charge you for bandwith (which is basically your speed limit) they should, and if they want you to pay for your usage as in UBB (pay for what you use) they should. Now don't combine the 2 as it is wrong.

Pay a monthly flat rate for speed that you get to use

OR

Pay as needed for the data you download/upload with no monthly fee


They are trying to combine the 2 to make more money again and pretend UBB is to protect average user from heavy bandwith users. If it was true they would use REAL UBB for light user with no monthly fee.

The gas i put in my car is like real UBB. I don't pay anything unless I drive my car and i have no monthly payment (yeah i alway pay my cars cash :P).

So stop using fake/wrong UBB and stop jamming this many people in the same pipeline that cant support them is all I have to say to the big telecom and my internet +VOIP phone with Acanac is making me really happy lol
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old January 4, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Here is a sign of the pricing we will start seeing. Teksavvy is increasing the prices on its packages, with some twists (ie. the 300GB folks get unlimited parts of day). I thought the UBB decision would affect DSL customers first, but I guess not:
TekSavvy Pricing Notice
Quote:
Variable Portion
However, the variable portion, based as it is on the incumbents’ purported cost of peak capacity, has the potential to become unjustifiably very substantial.

This is because the variable portion is based on tariffs that use costs submitted by incumbents such as Bell and Rogers. In the view of virtually all independent ISPs and consumer groups, some of the tariffs, in particular those applicable to Bell’s DSL service and Cogeco's cable service, are unusually high.

Unfortunately, the tariff-setting process is less than transparent. The incumbents make submissions, which are not subject to the review of those who can best assess them: other ISPs.

If left to stand, these prices will ensure that residential Internet service prices will increase dramatically as consumer usage at peak times increases. We are pursuing strategies to reverse or materially mitigate this element of the decision, and more on that later. But, for now, we have to accommodate the pricing model that will come into effect February 2.

TekSavvy has always viewed fair pricing to be at the core of our value proposition, and we remain committed to providing the best mix of competitive pricing, virtually unfettered usage, best-in-class service and flexible terms available in the industry. However, to continue to be able to do so in the face of the recent decision, we have to modestly adjust our rates.

As of February 2, we will be introducing new high-speed cable and DSL packages that will offer our customers all the speed options they need. At that time, in order to attempt to address the impact of the new pricing model, we will also be changing the pricing of all our high and unlimited usage packages.

300GB Packages. The cost of most of our 300GB packages will increase. However, for DSL customers, the 300GB meter will not run between the hours of 2 am and 8 am, effectively allowing unlimited services for all downloading in that off-peak period. We are pleased to be the first in the industry to offer unlimited off-peak bandwidth.*

Unlimited Packages. We will continue to offer unlimited packages for our more avid Internet users, with increased pricing that will reflect the greater demands that significant usage makes on our capacity requirements. We understand and share the desire to enjoy all that the Internet offers, but this unjustified pricing model compels us to adjust our prices accordingly.*

For a full pricing schedule please click www.teksavvy.com/en/newprice.html.
These are the best rates we currently are able to offer, together with our off-peak usage innovation, to minimize the impact of the new pricing model. Over the next six months or so we will find out whether these rates are appropriate, as the usage patterns of our subscribers come into focus with the introduction of new rates and speeds.

Rest assured that we are still working to change this. This cause is an extremely important one. Even before this decision, Canada was an international laggard when it came to the cost of Internet service, with per Mbps costs well above most of the rest of the industrialized world. These regulated wholesale rates that are in place from our suppliers only make matters worse. In our view, while these tariffs remain in effect, Canadians will continue to be punished for the “sin” of enjoying the benefits the Internet has to offer. Unique in the industrialized world, Canadians will be forced to carefully select what, when and how we engage the world through the Internet.

This new wholesale pricing is a big win for the incumbents, especially Cogeco and Bell, whose tariffs are noticeably out of line with most of their competitors. Unfortunately it is a big hit to everyone else – independent ISPs and customers alike.

At TekSavvy we do not believe this situation can remain unchallenged and unremedied.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old January 4, 2012, 04:38 PM
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I hate the internet situation in Canada.

No, I don't want your overblown, expensive shitty phone service.

No, I don't want your overblown, expensive, riddled with advertisements, shitty cable service.

I want internet only. My content when I want it, how I want it.
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Old January 4, 2012, 04:39 PM
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Sucks for the hike in pricing, but I'll probably be looking at High Speed DSL 12 or 16 Unlimited, double the speed than what I have right now for just a little more... WTB Functionnal separation, then they don't use the money we pay them for a service to buy sports assets and not upgrade the network...

Does it says if there is to have startup fees & new routers/modem needed? (as in my WRT54GL/TD-8816 combo won't be able to take it?) -- calling customer service.

EDIT:

99$ activation fee for new services will always be applicable.
No need a of new router/modem combo for <=DSL 16, only for 25.

Last edited by Lamb; January 4, 2012 at 04:51 PM.
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