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Old November 2, 2010, 08:13 PM
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All I hope is that Rogers doesn't follow suite ;) I'll be safe for the time being with TekSavvy Cable. $55/month for 10/1Mbps Unlimited seems quite fair to me. Majority of the US has faster speeds at that price, so why can't Canada?

Not sure why some support UBB though. It'll only make your Internet more expensive. Bell isn't going to be reasonable with the charges or starting limit (or I highly doubt it at least). Their bandwidth caps are already pretty damn low.

And as mentioned, there's more and more legal ways of obtaining media/games on the Internet now along with cloud computing, IPTV/Google TV, etc. UBB is just a way for Bell to keep their revenue stream IMO.

Also isn't most of Bell's "last mile" infrastructure government funded? It was obviously privatized though with the CRTC having some control to force Bell to play nice.
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Old November 2, 2010, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by geokilla View Post
And so Teksavvy didn't spend millions developing their own network and infrastructure? What we have here in the market are two major players, Rogers and Bell doing what they can to drive out competition. Take a look at the mobile industry. It's thanks to the newcomers such as WIND and Mobilicity do we see better plans from the Big 3. Well better retention plans anyways.
Really? Last I checked it was Bell I called when there is a problem with my phone line and it is Bell whose line is coming into my house.

You don't seem to understand that in the internet market it takes BILLIONS to compete. Not millions spent on marketing, etc. Infrastructure needs to be built which costs more than a few million here and there.

The mobile market can't be compared to this since you are talking about a cross section that is entirely based upon WIRELESS communications so the infrastructure investment is relatively minor by comparison.

TekSavvy can bitch and moan all they want but in the end it boils down to them being nothing more than a reseller.

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But they won't. Bandwidth doesn't cost more than a couple cents/GB and yet look at how much Bhell is charging right now? Check out their latest overage fees, courtsy of DSL Reports forum. I've learned a lot about in the past couple weeks.

http://internet.comm.bell.ca/cgi-bin...427&z=34872958
Again, I see absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. They are pushing people towards buying blocks of bandwidth which is actually giving them more flexibility IMO. Instead of buying a monthly package and then praying that you don't go over, Bell now offers additional bandwidth for $5 in 40GB blocks:

Bell Internet's 40GB Usage Insurance Plan - Extra Monthly Internet Usage

Hence why they are upping the download cap.
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Old November 2, 2010, 08:57 PM
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See the problem with your statement is that you seem to think that the fees aren't bad and they only do mild throttling. This is Bell we are talking about, hell any of the big 3, there is no way they will have just and fair fees.
Sorry, what? Not one thing I have downloaded in the last 6 months has been throttled and I am on Bell. Steam? I get a constant 1.2 MB/s. Netflix? Ditto. Zune downloads? No problem. Hulu through a press account? It flies.

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You also mention that we should have unlimited accounts through a high-priced business accounts. You do realize that all of our internet in Canada is already grossly over priced.
So? Nothing is going to change that but I can tell you that there are some extremely good deals if you are willing to look for them. Competition would be great but that will only happen once companies start releasing wireless broadband so the market isn't tied to Bell's infrastructure.

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There is only one reason that Bell wants to do this and that is because they see things like steam and netflix and see nothing but dollar signs. They just want to take the already over inflated prices and drive them up even higher. But they will advertise even lower prices and just have more and more overage fees, it is not like they will drop prices for anyone. This will only drive prices higher and higher.
I totally understand but until Canadians are willing to go to bat against some of the CRTC guidelines, that will continue to happen. The reason I am FOR UBB (as the CRTC has approved it) is due to the fact that as it was presented, it is a good idea.

Too many people are jumping up and down with "what ifs". I won't sign the petition because it is simply based off of assumptions rather than facts.

If the CRTC pulls more bone-headed moves like they have in the past, I'll be the first in line with a pitch fork and torch. This petition on the other hand is completely misplaced.
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Old November 2, 2010, 09:25 PM
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Really? Last I checked it was Bell I called when there is a problem with my phone line and it is Bell whose line is coming into my house.
And this relates to UBB because?

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The mobile market can't be compared to this since you are talking about a cross section that is entirely based upon WIRELESS communications so the infrastructure investment is relatively minor by comparison.

TekSavvy can bitch and moan all they want but in the end it boils down to them being nothing more than a reseller.
So you'd rather pay Bell hundreds for crap Internet service instead of paying Bell hundreds for bad Internet service while having Teksavvy around to provide some much needed competition around here? Is that what you're saying?

Based on what I learned in my two months of economics so far, assuming I'm applying my knowledge correctly, competition is what drives improvement. With people leaving the Big 3, they feel the pressure to improve their services to make them more competitive. However what they're doing right now is driving OUT the competition, causing Canadians to be stuck in one place.

We can voice our concerns by switching ISPs but what good will that do? The majority of Canadians know only of the big players. I'm willing to bet that if more people knew about the minor players and resellers, such as Teksavvy, competition will get more intense and the Big 3 will be forced to provide better Internet service for the prices they're charging us.

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Again, I see absolutely nothing wrong with this at all. They are pushing people towards buying blocks of bandwidth which is actually giving them more flexibility IMO. Instead of buying a monthly package and then praying that you don't go over, Bell now offers additional bandwidth for $5 in 40GB blocks:

Bell Internet's 40GB Usage Insurance Plan - Extra Monthly Internet Usage

Hence why they are upping the download cap.
There's nothing wrong IF you paid for say 10/1 for $20, and then a separate amount for bandwidth. But Bell's not doing that. They're forcing you to pay $5 more for 40GB more bandwidth, on top of the measly amount of bandwidth that's already provided with your Internet service. Look at the following example and you'll see why the overage charges are simply unreasonable.

Using Rogers and Teksavvy cable service as an example. For 10/512kb Internet service, Rogers charges almost $10 more per month yet provides 140GB less bandwidth. This tells me that bandwidth is very cheap and nowhere close to the insane amount Bell and Rogers charges per GB. Only reason I've been with Rogers for so long is:

  • my mom, like the majority of people, is scared of chagnge
  • I get 30% off for one year

I admit, I'm no good at arguments, but I believe your reasoning is incorrect either.
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Old November 3, 2010, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by geokilla View Post
And this relates to UBB because?
You brought up Teksavvy's "investment" in infrastructure. I called shens since it is still Bell's network they piggyback on.


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So you'd rather pay Bell hundreds for crap Internet service instead of paying Bell hundreds for bad Internet service while having Teksavvy around to provide some much needed competition around here? Is that what you're saying?
Please tell me what "crap" internet service is. I have had nothing but great service from them and their pricing structure isn't bad at all. For ExpressVu HD w/movie channels & 7 theme packs + home phone + Fibe 10 w/ 40GB overage block, I pay $137 AFTER taxes. "Hundreds"? Hardly.

The only time I or anyone I know has had an issue with Bell was during a bad wind storm we had at the beginning of the summer. I completely lost phone + internet. However, all of the exterior cables were repaired in less than 24 hours.

Would I change anything? Sure. None of the Bell DSL gateways / routers currently support Wireless N which is a total pain in the butt.

Quote:
Based on what I learned in my two months of economics so far, assuming I'm applying my knowledge correctly, competition is what drives improvement. With people leaving the Big 3, they feel the pressure to improve their services to make them more competitive. However what they're doing right now is driving OUT the competition, causing Canadians to be stuck in one place.
I agree. However, TekSavvy, etc. are NOT competition no matter how much they would like you to believe that. They are resellers and Bell has every right to tie them to a pricing structure which is less likely to cause competition. It is after all Bell's network they are piggybacking off of.

Want true competition? Pray that one of the big US or international players is stupid enough to spend billions in a market of less than 40 million people.


Quote:
There's nothing wrong IF you paid for say 10/1 for $20, and then a separate amount for bandwidth. But Bell's not doing that. They're forcing you to pay $5 more for 40GB more bandwidth, on top of the measly amount of bandwidth that's already provided with your Internet service. Look at the following example and you'll see why the overage charges are simply unreasonable.
I never said the prices were good right across the board. This is why I am pushing for UBB; people who use more pay more. I spend quite of bit of time on Hulu and Netflix while downloading AT LEAST three Steam games per month. I also download countless large files from corporate FTPs and I usually struggle to hit the 100GB mark.

It's as simple as that. Whether or not Bell, Rogers, etc charge insane amounts for UBB is a fight that needs to be brought before the CRTC once the propositions are put forward. THEN we can all sign petitions and march on Parliment Hill if need be. However, until that happens I am all for UBB.
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Old November 3, 2010, 11:22 PM
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I think the biggest issue is the pricing scheme behind all of this, no doubt it is going to more expensive on average for the average user than before. That's what Bell and Rogers do best. For what we pay in Canada, we get crappy internet service relative to the states or Europe. I'm aware that SOME of this can be blamed on our population density and how we are spread out - but come on. We as Canadians get screwed by the telecomm companies, badly. I feel sorry for the people in Quebec because it is even worse there than in Ontario.
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Old November 4, 2010, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
You brought up Teksavvy's "investment" in infrastructure. I called shens since it is still Bell's network they piggyback on.

Please tell me what "crap" internet service is. I have had nothing but great service from them and their pricing structure isn't bad at all. For ExpressVu HD w/movie channels & 7 theme packs + home phone + Fibe 10 w/ 40GB overage block, I pay $137 AFTER taxes. "Hundreds"? Hardly.

Thats great if you have great service with bell. How about the other hundreds, if not thousands of people that feels different? Its been awhile since i had bell and my friends who are on them, hates them with a passion. Terrible cust service, overcharges, throttling, etc. Why they're still with bell is another story.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Would I change anything? Sure. None of the Bell DSL gateways / routers currently support Wireless N which is a total pain in the butt.

I agree. However, TekSavvy, etc. are NOT competition no matter how much they would like you to believe that. They are resellers and Bell has every right to tie them to a pricing structure which is less likely to cause competition. It is after all Bell's network they are piggybacking off of.

Want true competition? Pray that one of the big US or international players is stupid enough to spend billions in a market of less than 40 million people.

I agree, TekSavvy isnt a competition. They are using a network that bell created. But, with the public's money to fund it. Personally, the gov't should have a majority stake on that.

I really hope someone do come and build another network. Never thought netflix would come to canada, but its a welcome change.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post

I never said the prices were good right across the board. This is why I am pushing for UBB; people who use more pay more. I spend quite of bit of time on Hulu and Netflix while downloading AT LEAST three Steam games per month. I also download countless large files from corporate FTPs and I usually struggle to hit the 100GB mark.

It's as simple as that. Whether or not Bell, Rogers, etc charge insane amounts for UBB is a fight that needs to be brought before the CRTC once the propositions are put forward. THEN we can all sign petitions and march on Parliment Hill if need be. However, until that happens I am all for UBB.

I dont have a problem with paying more if the user is above the national average. However, being with rogers and having their expensive internet, but with a measly 175 Gb cap... well, i personally believe i should be getting more bandwidth with that amount of cash.
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Old November 4, 2010, 01:40 AM
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For the longest time I hated this idea, but after seeing how it is being implemented elsewhere ... it doesn't seem like such a bad idea. With a few conditions though, as mentioned above. The price per GB needs to be reasonable. Currently it is not. I would be happy to pay for what I use, but considering what it actually costs the ISP's to provide, I'm not going to let myself get raped on a monthly basis.
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Old November 4, 2010, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Prolab View Post
Thats great if you have great service with bell. How about the other hundreds, if not thousands of people that feels different? Its been awhile since i had bell and my friends who are on them, hates them with a passion. Terrible cust service, overcharges, throttling, etc. Why they're still with bell is another story.
Here is the issue: service won't change one bit if you switch to TekSavvy or their competition. Yes, if there are network issues you can call them but from what I have been told, many issues need to be taken up with Bell anyways since it is their network.

Throttling? Like I said: why would you have an issue with that if you aren't using torrents, etc.?
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Old November 4, 2010, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Here is the issue: service won't change one bit if you switch to TekSavvy or their competition. Yes, if there are network issues you can call them but from what I have been told, many issues need to be taken up with Bell anyways since it is their network.
But things will get fixed quicker, or at least they'll let the customers know what's wrong. Take a look at the recent Dupoint POI/phub for Rogers. Us customers were left in the dark to fend for ourselves, with each rep not wanting to tell me anything, or doing the same things over and over again such as speedtest, reboot modem, bypass router, etc. After calling in maybe 20 times, I finally got a rep who acknowledged everything and was actually a great tech support agent who told me everything I wanted to know, and more. Did I mention that tech support closed my ticket without doing anything or even notifying me?

So SKYMTL, you never lost your TV service during said windstorm? When I was with Bell ExpressVu, I lost TV service on average once to twice a month.

And you said you are struggling to hit 100GB/month. Well how do you use your Internet? How many users are there? Don't remember if I said this before, but qw stream (SC2, YouTube, drama) and download a lot (no not BT or music). Watching 720P SC2 casts for an hour and I use up like 2GB of my bandwidth already. Add that to multiple users in the house and it quickly adds up. At least half of my friends have to keep watch of their usage due to the way they use the Internet.
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